ok me and some other peepz were talkin about adding another mappist format, minecraft. the general concept is build something in minecraft in the hour and vanilla minecraft only (for now). other general ohc rules apply like don't prebuild and don't steal hax.

bitpacks for this ohc could be certain blocks, difficulties, amount of blocks, kind of map (like a parkour map or a house or something), or some other general themes etc.

submit format would be a .zip of the world save and then botbrs just vote on which one they like/follows the rulez.

we might have to specify a version or something too maybe (could be in the rules?) but i'm not sure. this might be a bitpack idea too, we could have some minecraft ohcs maybe you have to build using alpha or something. (maybe normally versions could be the latest version normally tho?)

it wasn't my idea to host the non halal minecraft ohc that was a "mixbattle art" but i did support it because i did like the idea of this format (i did intend to make this forum post first tho). also the entries in that ohc are pretty legit i think too so it's not some kind of troll thingy. (i do agree with slimeball's comment though).

*ahem*

Potential icon for format:

http://i.imgur.com/RpqPGyQ.png

http://i.imgur.com/PuedKu9.png

oh and another thing, this format is probably going to be some sort of "ohc only" format i feel as a side thing since it's fun but i don't want this format to shift the community focus away from music to minecraft so it'd definitely only be some sort of ohc thing and not like a "minecraft major", there's other places for that

As the resident guy-who-should-probably-be-a-mappist, I am in complete and total support of this endeavor.

I don't think you need a new format. Just do whatever you want. Fuck it.

I don't like this idea, as I've mentioned before -- Minecraft is not a vintage game, neither does it have any classic-ness to it that makes it vintage. Battle of the bits is (mostly) for old things. Chips, and trackers, all that classic stuff. Doom mapping works because it's old. I feel this betrays part of what BotB is about.

But then again, I'm more of a purist when it comes to that kind of stuff, so whatevs

ok let me spell it out. puke doesn't like when formats are not pure because it fucks up his data and organization. reference the NEW FORMAT SIGHTED post and his frustrations.

do not begast another unless it has been fully supported by him and been addressed by more than one admin.

golgi addressed the suggestion in the proper manner but it should not have been tested until puke made a format for it because he wanted to add it.

another sign in which things are ok to bend rules is if b-knox is participating in an irregular OHB.

IMO, get this newfangled 3D crap out of here. If we need more mappist formats I'd be more supportive of level editors for classic games.

I still think Atari 2600 deserves a format.

TIA has been a format for a while. :)

Atari 2600 game, not audio, though I suppose nothing is stopping you from uploading a game under TIA.

I've always been in favor of filling in very basic, very important things like Draw and Write formats, so when I see something like this, it's a little troubling.

BotB is a highly effective compo website for various arts, and right now the non-music side supports Pixel, Chip/MixBattle_Art(proprietary for majors), HTML, ASCII, and Doom WAD. It's a very niche lineup, so I'd imagine if anything should be added, it'd be much simpler things(simpler to implement, too, as botb already supports their usual filetypes!).

But the first thing we suggest is...Minecraft? :V

What is this 3D poop crap...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWJYhUzyR6g&t=390s

I also have no idea why we're pretending it matters whether something is 'vintage' -<-

Minecraft would be like wildchip for maps almost. Fakebit -> Fakemap? :P

It'd be super cool to add more videogame-ish Mappist formats, for sure, though the trick would be to add something that you could reasonably work with in an hour like you can with Doom. Minecraft is attractive in this option -- wonder if we should brainstorm some cool 2D games with editors too. Chip's Challenge perhaps? It has a fitting name. :P

Or maybe the solution is to just have more Doom. :D

Hmmm, now that I think about it, Minecraft kinda doesn't fit the theme of Battle of the Bits. It's an extremely fun idea!.. but maybe not meant for this site. Also Fakemap would be too much of a hassle in my opinion because of how many different softwares there are that modify maps for games, then you gotta make ROM patches or upload levels which requires more and more software and just would end up being too much of a hassle for everyone to do coherently. However, I still really like the idea of minecraft battles... maybe a new site is in order??? (maybe I can try to throw something together........)

do you people even read my awesome posts!??!?!?!

i think i got cancer

As someone who never had an interest in minecraft, I really don't know what to add to this topic.
Then again I'm no map maker either, so blurgh.

^{pointless comments 101}

Tilde what awesome posts

(OHHH TROLLED SO HARD)


OK, on to the matter at hand.
The initial aesthetic of Minecraft was the 16x16 "old-school" pixel art style. It has obviously grown from that, supporting HD textures, shader mods, and the like, but in its raw form, it's still a very "pixely" game with a decidedly "retro" feel, albeit with modern 3D camera and movement/physics. That's really irrelevant here.

I understand that some will have disdain for Minecraft considering that it is a mega-popular mainstream moneymaking machine. (how's that alliteration?)
Of course, if that's your only complaint against it, you're an elitist douchebag. You need more reasons to hate on something than that. (Usually with that prerequisite comes plenty of other inherent reasons to dislike something, ok, I get it, we're on the same page. There's a reason things get popular in mainstream society.)

So what are some more reasons that it doesn't belong here?

1. Well, it's not music for one thing, but Tilde reminded us that non-musical things are certainly a welcome part of the BotB "canon".

2. The sheer mass appeal of Minecraft poses it as a threat to what this site is all about. If too many people got too involved with too much of that here, it could begin to debase BotB as a whole.

3. It's more work for Puke to decide what to do with the format and then code it. The man has a life. I know we all respect that (or most of us seem to).

What are some good reasons that Minecraft *should* be a part of BotB?

1. Note block creations ARE musical, and take a high degree of technical skill to pull off, not unlike some of the crazy chip formats we embrace.

2. Redstone creations should be intriguing for anyone with any interest in digital electronics, as it is a virtual "erector set" for digital circuitry.

3. Pixel art.

4. It is a lot of fun, and is just about the most creative "game" there is. This is not World of Warcraft. This is, potentially, art.


I'm not pushing for this or against it. This is totally in the capable hands of Mr. Puke7 to decide. I thought I'd at least try to make a logical case of the pros and cons.
I'm gonna go build something now.

Alright, I got all caught up on my legalities and had time to think about this. Please refer to B00daw's post : it's one thing for me to add a format and it's another thing for me to add a format and then posthumously update the entries that are already that format. Not that I condone the false use of formats, but Doom WAD would have been a better choice (mappist points and similar 'media' characteristics [not just music or image, but more than that]).

I don't have much opinion on minecraft as a format other than I have no experience with it directly and am wary that it could flood BotB like moot suggested.

Now, concerning 'vintage', BotB formats are focused on things that can be done without commercial software and are OS independent. Or, at the very least, I try to keep it that way. I mean, I'd love to have an adobe after effects battle so I have an excuse to get more practice in, but that's unfair to people w/o access to that software.

formats I have been considering --
photomash (here's some pictures, now make a new one)
acapella (voice only recordings)
rap (host provides a loop, everyone does their own rap)
minigame (still not sure how to handle this mess)
minecraft (because why not?)

I want to request a luv feature for posts. For that one right there.

"Now, concerning 'vintage', BotB formats are focused on things that can be done without commercial software and are OS independent. Or, at the very least, I try to keep it that way."

This is why I'm legitimately baffled as to why Pencil or Illustrate (Draw) and TXT or RTF (writing) aren't formats, given

A) the acceptance of botb as not a "chiptune website" but a general art academy
B1) your stern description in a previous compo of what pixel art is and how regular drawings or photomashes are not allowed
C1) we already have multiple, extremely proprietary and niche versions of the nonexistent, theoretical "draw" format(s)
C2) writing is an entire dimension of art that multiple existing users are interested in and would be the easiest thing to make ohcs around, plus it'd bring in a whole new caste of users and increase the site's notoriety as an art-building mecca

I'm not going to say it's easy to implement, but it seems like a gaping hole in the website. All those formats you're considering are great, but how could they possibly take precedence over these basic things?? ANSWER ME PUKE *grabs collar* ANSWER ME YOU SON OF A BITCH, I'LL KILL YOU

YOU CAN'T KILL THAT WHICH YOU FAIL TO COMPREHEND.

I hear you on the drawing (penises) and not so much on the writing (horrible grammar about penises doing things they shouldn't).

langel p bookbinder i dub thee the wizard of weird. your web world weaved wearily and wisely.

"I hear you on the drawing (penises) and not so much on the writing (horrible grammar about penises doing things they shouldn't)."

Isn't that what ailments (as a punishment) are for?

Now I feel we're not allowed to write, because you can write about penises. That's not fair!

I think problems arising from a literature format can be solved by enforcing rules regarding what kind of writing is allowed and what kind of writing isn't.

But yeah, writing can be dangerous. The pen is mightier than the sword...

Well, I see why writing left a bad taste in your mouth, your last experience with it was 14-year-old musicians using the wrong format to push terrible in-jokes. Actually having it be a competitive format and getting people to sign on to the site for it would encourage people to take it as seriously as music and pixel compos -<-

"photomash (here's some pictures, now make a new one)
acapella (voice only recordings)
rap (host provides a loop, everyone does their own rap)"

all this sounds amazing, i especially support rap and photomash, as a rapper and a fan of photomashing

also slimeball, don't forget that the penis is even mighter than the pen

"adobe after effects battle"
o: we need to somehow make this a thing.

I was thinking about using a virtual machine and just reloading the os to pre-trial install and reinstall every time it runs out of time but virtual machines are extremely cpu and gpu intensive and wouldn't leave many resources for the software itself.

If anyone can think of a way to make this a thing I would be all over it O: O: O:

botb is first and foremost a music competition site. any non music formats are extras and wholly unnecessary

*slaps Chipchampion around a bit with this entry*

http://battleofthebits.com/arena/Entry/standagainstthetyranyofsamples.png/7530/

good opinion champ

wolly unnecessary

Woolly unnecessary.

http://battleofthebits.com/arena/OHC/1956/

I've got a real bug up my ass about how the world has completely de-valued writing as an art form. For some reason, video game developers will get the most amazing illustrators and musicians in the world, but for the writing, they'll get whatever programmer has the most time on their hands. So many people think they're ready to write the script for big projects just because they're physically capable of it.

It's an art, people! It's exactly as hard as music and drawing. There's so much to think about, so much to learn. The ascii compos abused for writing in the past are the equivalent of this: http://battleofthebits.com/arena/Entry/fuck+the+police+comin+straight+from+the+underground+young+niggas+got+it+bad+cause+they%27re+brown.bmp/14031/

NOT ONLY THAT - but writing compo circles exist locally. There are months dedicated to writing a novel or short story just like there are for albums!

Writers have it rough, man. Why are they always left out?

wolly necessary
http://battleofthebits.com/arena/Entry/wilhelmstep/9050/

I also have no idea why we're pretending it matters whether something is 'art' -<-

It matters in this context. Writing has such a huge presence in the compo world but nobody has any idea how great and important it is next to illustration and music, and how many aspiring writers for cartoons and video games would love for this to be one of the site's features. Just being able to do .txt writing compos would add a new wing to both this site and puke's house. (imo I'm not an oracle)

How Can Writing Art Be Real If Writing Formats Aren't Real

It can't be art if it isn't a BotB format. >;3
[j/k]

Personally, I'd like a writing and a more general drawing format, but I'm not sure I'd be too bothered if they didn't exist. It's Puke's site. He runs it because we're cute and it's a hobby. ;3 If we stop being absolutely fucking adorable, it becomes less of a hobby.

_{so, keep it cute!}

I'm also sure that writing compos would get a better reputation with an actual format, rather than the terribly lewd and half-assed things that were done earlier under the ASCII format.

I suspect that Minecraft will be a mildly popular format and then die off in a month or two, and then move into "major only" status like Sunvox and Deflemask.

I could be wrong [don't play minecraft -- in part because it's distressingly fill-intensive on my GPU and so runs like chilled molasses unless I make it like I'm playing an N64 game and crank up the fog and in part because I never really bothered to get into it.]

sometimes, I think we overthink formats though :Y

I'm probably just rambling.

re: minigame format:

I would love to see some gamedev compos. heck it would probably get me to use the site a lot more, since I'm not really that good at music, etc. here is my input on the best way to go about this:

the html5 canvas element is great for games. it's easy to write html/javascript code in notepad (no proprietary tools needed) most modern browsers support javascript/html5 (cross-platform) and the files would just be html and maybe some raster graphics (html files are already implemented on the site!). Plus, all these technologies have loads of tutorials and documentation online, so learning them would probably be less painful than many of the formats on here, haha. it still requires technical knowledge though, so it wouldn't flood the site like minecraft might.

if this gets implemented i will give puke 1000 b00nz :o

I'm not so sure if writing is so underrated. Around here, literature is an obligatory part of the curriculum of all secondary schools. Unlike visual art or music.

I see BotB as more of a hobby thing where having fun is at least 1000x more important than taking a form of art seriously and being artful. I feel it's a bad thing in general when a lot of people do take it seriously.

Whether something is well-written, well-drawn or well-composed.... it's a subjective thing, really. What's art to one group of people is complete trash to another group of people. The more serious we are about it, the more silly arguments we'll get about taste.

And this is where I wouldn't like a literature format if it's going to be a very serious thing where people can't appreciate a joke.

Oh believe me, it's absolutely underrated. If it wasn't, people wouldn't be so lax about video game and movie writing. Literature study and school essays have nothing to do with learning to write fiction and scripts(which is more what I'm talking about). That type of writing, as well as all art, is woefully underrepresented in schools.

But you're right, it shouldn't be a lion's den either. The fact that golgi CAN make mspaint scribbles and snatch last place is part of what's important about this webs site.

it's mostly that it was lewd and/or half-assed when it came to previous attempts

Hell, I was guilty of both. There's a difference between being silly [honestly, BotB is a kind of place where you can't be too serious :Y ] and being dirty/lazy.

although, being dirty is far worse than being lazy -- BotB's motto is "try your best or do your worst"

wtf

"It can't be art if it isn't a BotB format."

Damn. It's times like these where I really wish BotB posts had the concept of a custom title. :P

ok let me make a bit more of a serious post now after i read this whole entire thing:

my original post was simply a format request, you can take it or leave it and i wasn't obliging puke to add it, it was simply a suggestion. i intended to make it about 2 hours earlier than i did before any non halal compo happened.

i've had this idea for a while now but i was (and still am) a bit on the fence about it (but i haven't made it public until now). i realise what kind of people a minecraft format could bring to this site and how it could theoretically debase the whole site (that's why i said . but i do think such a format would actually be pretty fun and maybe it could be an offsite hosted thing as not to bring these people. i have another idea how this could be hosted which i will explain a bit later.

the reason why i am saying this because as a game, minecraft is pretty botb-centric (ie: it involves making something creative with certain restrictions) for the reasons moot posted 2 billion posts before this. you can build pixel art, build music, build circuits and contraptions, etc. and they are all really primitive. so while it is some "3d poop crap", it isn't just some other game like "wow" and call of duty black cops which have no creative input or output. minecraft as a game is a super creativity inducing game and has the potential to be an artform. (see moot's post (#44416) for more details as if i explained any further on this, it would just be repeating what he said again)

also, what's this poop crap about "vintage = good" and "get this 3d crap out of here"? i'm pretty sure since the beginning of consoles, they've been trying to experiment with 3d perspective (see slimeball's link (#44404)) and just because it's 30 years old doesn't mean it's automatically good (but new doesn't mean good either). an example of this is the fairlight compo. there's a reason we aren't hosting a Qasar M8 compo (inb4 someone says we should)! i know there are a lot of purists here (which i'll never understand that mentality probably because i'm 2young but even besides that i'll never understand it) but there's also a lot of nonpurist formats here (wildchip, etc something i already mentioned). my approach is, if you don't like the format, then don't participate in the format (see me with ftm)!

now here's my other idea instead that may have been suggested before by someone else (i don't know). i was thinking we should have some sort of "blank format", a format only admins can host for these sort of "strange formats", it would be a good way to test the waters without doing something dong like hosting it on a nonintended format, and if we wanted to only do something once or extremely rare this format could be used. participants could probably get some sort of "wowist" or some other category points. it wouldn't really have badge points going to it seeing as it is sort of a "special format". i'm not demanding this and i don't expect it to be implemented, i am only suggesting it and i think it could be a good idea. (i do think we should have asked puke before doing the dong format mc ohc).

also to tilde: tastefulness is subjective and a bs concept! ;))))))))))))))))))) (my entries in pixel compos are basically meant to be silly and i don't expect people to vote them high i just like drawing stuff that looks like a 2 year old made it as a protest against ~~certain things~~ and also because i like acting like a 2 year old)

this thread derailed!

I am DEFENDING your pixel entries!! ò<ó

Also, relating to Tilde's writing request, I can write using proper grammar rules and there can be plenty of non "penises doing things they shouldn't be doing" writing compos (see: the recent ASCII compos I hosted)!

the blank format is an excellent idea imo. i thought of it independently as well, so i'm glad to see somebody else putting it forward. it would award no points, possibly no medals, only be hostable by admins, etc.

just +1ing that idea

It must be called ?.

golgi: going to help me develop astigmatism man! a little brevity with your posts, my friend. ;)

!

I dont think we need minecraft on botb. I could go for botb in minecraft, though. Anyway, I have to say I agree with Chip Champion's post.

P.S., slimeballs reply to Chip Champion was tu quoque, so disregard it!

Uuni, sometimes you're so silly it's adorable~

Why don't we just make actual mining a format? Whoever returns with the best ore in an hour wins

I'm not talking about minecraft btw

it's a good idea but the main issue is that it'd get repetitive and there's a slight risk of death that i think botb should cover if it occurred

i'll contact puke about the contracts and we'll see

Where da ores at

"Now, concerning 'vintage', BotB formats are focused on things that can be done without commercial software and are OS independent. Or, at the very least, I try to keep it that way."

The "very least" part would fit there most because... ahem, excuse me, I've been always keeping my copy of Doom pirated since I, like, was a child! And as far as I know, there's no Freedoom equivalent to Doom 1.

So when do we start having covert Minecraft compos? That's the only real question. Covert to a degree so it don't start dumping non music people here. Just craftycrafts for BotBrs.