I'm really interested to know, if you aren't already, why aren't you performing your music for people in live venues? Is it a lack of interest? Fear?

I've realized one really weird thing about the whole internet musicking thing that's become the norm is, we all share the same audience pool. Can I assume that every artist really wants to be acknowledged and valued uniquely for their work? I think about how great it must feel for those who stick their necks out and do the dirty work necessary to gain their own audience that uniquely belongs to them.

If you think about it, this is how it used to be. This used to be the norm because there was no other way for an artist to go about it, but now everyone is sort of fenced within the same online structures. Everyone's making use of the same tools, the same bounds, the same rules, the same hangups, the same audience. The world is getting smaller and smaller as more and more rely on the guaranteed, semi-captive audiences of twitter, soundcloud, facebook, etc. What do you think?

I've performed live, and the reason I don't perform my music in live venues is because i am uncoordinated. I do not have the rhythmic ability to perform reliably, which is why I use trackers.

none of my music was written with live performance in mind, so i have no idea what to do while it's playing. accompaniment with such and such an instrument can be fun but it's not the way i intended the music to sound.

in practice when i play open mics i do something like read a book or organize files on my computer or play a game boy (while the actual track plays from schism tracker on my laptop). but one time i did butcher a zanzan module by playing a casio vl-1 along with it.

By performing live, do you mean actual instruments or doing a DJ set? I only know like two instruments, but for the latter, I'm not really sure who to go to for that sort of thing (at least as far as local stuff goes). IDK if I'd ever consider DJing a lot of the stuff I have released tho.

ive done live for other bands/genres and things but not for chip.

for me theres not really any sense of performance that i can bring to my chiptune.

What sort of music do you exactly specify? Preprogrammed chip (or any form of electronical music), acoustic, with real synthesizers, using computers??

I'd love to be in a band but I don't perform due to me not having: 1) time, 2) not wanting to travel large distances 3) I don't have proper gear lol

If we're talking about preprogrammed music, like things in famitracker or whatnot, what is there to perform? Playing back your music and twisting some volume knobs won't do for me.

it's because no one really wants me to yet

tbh i have more fun hosting other people's shows

Performing electronic music live can be hard. I don't just want to trigger some clips/samples or something, as that would feel very wrong to me personally.

However, I have performed some experimental/ambient stuff live. I have a Reaktor ensemble that I've been building for many years now exactly for that purpose. I use a shitty BCR-2000 and BCF-2000 combo to control it.

I also sometimes play guitar for parties and stuff, but I've never really been in a band.

I've performed live several times and I have the same problem as Jangler: the only way I could perform my music in a way that actually feels satisfying is hiring a full band, and I don't have the time or money for that.

Of course I could write music specifically structured to be played live by one person, but I also just don't get much actual pleasure out of performing (anymore, at least). All my performances so far have basically been: anxiety -> EXTREME anxiety -> performance starts -> a sort of zen trance and a tiny bit of enjoyment from hearing my music going through big speakers -> performance ends -> disappointment, unfulfillment, and adrenaline shakes.

maybe it's a chicken and the egg sorta thing, I dunno, but for the time being I've decided not to do lives bc they aren't very fun for me as a performer

also re: charlotte, there is something very alluring about listening to music played loud enough that you physically experience it through your body and not just your ears, but I also agree that it is very exhausting if you're not the type who gets energy from being in a crowd.

yeah what's up with going into an altered state of mind when performing music anyway

Oh yeah nightclubs are bleh. But if you're in an actual music venue with a competent sound engineer and performers you care about it can be very neat (also you gotta be wearing earplugs bc cymbals and noise sweeps and other high-frequency sounds are not fun to listen to with naked earholes).

I like chibitech and cTrix, so seeing chibitech and cTrix up close and loud was amazing, conversely I don't care for a lot of LA chiprock bands so seeing them live is just a bunch of noise to me

I'd advice either getting some earprotectors/volume reduction/whatever u call it

That or go to j a z z c l u b s :3

ahhh.....quiet, pleasant jazz. https://youtu.be/JP-rtgTy1Lk

because i'm a grafxicist ha_hahhahhahha

DJing chiptune is something that I really want to do in the future. I don't have the equipment or time to right now >:C _{yet :O}

playing live is amazing.

i have not played live any of the material you folks have heard of mine yet. this is because i have not adapted any of it for live performance, but i have every intention of doing that in the near future.

i'm quite surprised by some of the statements made in this thread. a lot of you seem to have closed the book on live performance for problems that have solutions. it's even more surprising because you are some of the most talented musicians i know.

I can't drive

One of the major hurdles to putting on your own gigs is getting the proper gear that can play a lot of different types of venues. Usually when I play solo shows it's a fairly low-volume thing, so just my big keyboard amp will do. But sometimes if you're playing a bigger room, you absolutely have to have a PA system.
It's certainly a barrier to entry. But it's not impossible!
Performing music live is something every musician should do at some point, even if it's not a regular thing. You gain a whole skill set that you could never even realise is there if you've never done it.
It's brought me out of my shell in a big way! I never even get nervous anymore.
But that takes time! I've been playing about 150-180 gigs per year for the last five or six years. It gets easier!

This may be a "just me" thing, but asking "why aren't you performing your music live?" on a site for composers is sorta like asking "why aren't you exhibiting your paintings in an art museum yet?" Well, to start, I'm not a painter. :P


While there are plenty of folk who skillfully occupy both spaces (moot :D), I've always strongly considered composing and performing to be two related, but separate, skills.

For whatever odd reason, I've never been particularly interested in branching into performance-land any time soon. Still plenty of ground to break in composition land first, plus it's still fun. Better milk it. :P

xaser, please have 100 boons

The closest to performing my music live irl I ever did was some arrangements for the local orchestra I used to play at

I'd think about performing my chiptunes but I'm really sure my music is not the kind of thing people would go to places to listen to lmao

First time I ever played live for a small audience of fellow students, I had to stop mid-song (not suddenly, mind you) because I couldn't remember the rest. Still I got an applause and all, and after that I excused myself and went to the bathroom to cry and shake.

Yes, I felt that terrible.

Hopefully, my awesome teacher forced me to have a very small audience during every single practice, so the anxiety got more manageable each time. Eventually, gig day came and I had no issues. I'm sure I had an adrenaline overdose, but I was still pretty chill.

I don't have 40 fingers nor the coordination to play my percussion on a 50drum-kit.

Chip musicians are more composers than performance musicians anyway.

Real talk if someone doesn't do so for this exact reason, I'm up for playing a part in your multiple piece band.

Because I live in a LAME ass suburb with nothing going on. I'm not gonna play at any of the crappy sports bars, not until I've mastered the art of dad rock. Maybe I can perform outside of Walmart or the used tire shop across the street.

I've been performing on stage (mainly vocalist) for ten years, however, no one knows about my more electronic side. Mainly because I just don't think people would understand the music or appreciate it so why bother?

Really happy to read a lot of these. I wanna respond to a lot of points, but I think responding to what Xaser said would cover a lot of them for now.

@Xaser, composition and performance aren't merely related, but interrelated.

The difference being, composition and performance are both purely abstract concepts on their own and cannot create music without the existence of the other. A composition is in need of a performance, and a performance requires a composition. Even when you're sequencing notes and sounds via tracker or DAW, you're programming a computer performance of a composition. And improvisation is composition in real time, so this interrelation remains constant within the context of performing an improvised composition.

So you see, there is no separation of performance and composition when it comes to creating music. The combination of the two is what creates music, and music is dependent upon this interrelation between composition and performance. This is evident within the observable fact that altering the performance of a composition or altering the composition itself will Always alter the music.

A few seem to have truncated the concept of Performance as being synonymous with simply playing an instrument or operating DJ equipment. Playing music and Performing music are not one and the same. Playing is a subset of skills alongside a collection of several other elements within Performance. While playing is exclusive to a set of skills revolved around technically operating an instrument, Performance is a much broader topic in which Playing is only one element.

So what are these other elements? This is where I hope we can broaden the discussion to include what I've generally defined as Performance. We have a few active BotBrs who are quite experienced with performing, and I'd love to hear what they think in relation to the points I've made here. For example, factors which impact the overall performance include the room of the venue itself, lighting, audience interaction, body language, dress, the setpiece onstage, and even temperature and humidity can be elements of a performance.

In essence, the performance is the sensual vehicle which delivers the composition, and my argument is that there is more to be experienced within music besides simply hearing it. Anyone who's experienced a great music performance in person know what I'm talking about. We've established that music is the interrelated combination of composition and performance, so that changing either the composition or the performance will change the music itself. It then follows that if you alter or control any of the elements contained within the performance, you will in some way alter or control the music itself. So, my argument is, by not fully exploring performance, you are not fully exploring your music.

Render != perform

If you're implying that I claimed Render == perform, it would a false implication.

If you want something more formal related to your statement, mine was ProgrammedSequencing == Performance

i hate all my music except maybe 1 song

For people who answered that they'd do it if; I'd like to debunk a few things, particularly things that held me back when I was younger.

There's no such thing as "I don't have the right kit yet." Actually, there is a little bit, but for what we do, I think half the ones who said they don't have kit may actually have what they need but aren't giving themselves enough credit.

For instance, I didn't know that most decent venues supply public address. That means you don't need to own microphones, a mixer, DI boxes, or amps if you can't afford them. If you own something that can plug into DI and reliably play your songs, you can perform.

When a person who "just pushes play" performs, the purpose is to be present at the event and use the opportunity to meet people and show them how you intend for your music to be enjoyed. That could mean leading people in a ridiculous dance, or it could just mean shaking hands and saying hello. That is the point when you visit most of the blipfest era performances: getting to meet the people behind the music you listen to. That's what the audience wants more than anything else.

So now, my answer. At this point in my life it's often difficult for me to make an entry and listen for voting, let alone leave my house several times a year just to come back with less money the next day. My first and last chipmusic sort of performance was as replacement for a gig minusbaby double booked and ditched. Bubblegum Octopus was there. It was good and fun, but it showed me that no matter how short the distance to the venue, I really need a hotel night and the next day off to recover properly or I can't handle it physically... And that was before my daughter. I've played for bands a few times, and all in all, I can't put the right amount of work in to get the correct amount of satisfaction for now. Add what I said above about meeting people, and just staying home makes more sense at this point.

Instead, my entries here are performance, and I think many of you treat your own entries that way too. And the rest of you should.

The same goes for."netlabel albums" and any releases or whatever.

When you compose for a computer, it's only performed one way. There is no room for the computer to interpret the composition. This is entirely not the case for, say, Bach composing and then any pianist performing it differently. The computer is rigid and cannot feel. It cannot really be said that the computer is a performer since it only does it one way and it's the way you programmed it to do so.

@chunter,
dude I totally agree with what you're saying and it's well put. People can do So much with what they already have, it's just a matter of having a vision. What I think happens tho is many of us don't realize the amount of power we actually have to get our music out there and create a unique and memorable experience for people no matter where we live or what equipment we have. It's a matter of coming to terms with realistic expectations and seeing ourselves, our creativity, our skills, and our desires more clearly.

Also, if you've followed any of my last post, there is absolutely no way anyone can say that BotB entires are not part of a performance. It's actually impossible for this to be true.

@Xyz,
this is true but it doesn't falsify the statements presented in my logic. Allow me to correct my formal statement, and be more accurate outside of memed booleans. The supposition we're discussing here is:

ProgrammedSequencing ∈ Performance
Composition ∪ Performance = Music

In other words, programmed sequencing is an element of performance, and the combination of composition and performance is the definition of music.

Also if you follow my logic, programmed sequencing is only an element of performance, not performance itself. The point is that you need both a composition and a performance to create music, and in the case of using computers, the computer is part of the performance of the composition.

edit: I wanna summarize my point so it's not lost in all the other mess being discussed in my posts:

"by not fully exploring performance, you are not fully exploring your music."

reminder that the prompt was specifically "why aren't you performing your music live IRL?", not "why aren't you performing your music by posting it on a website?". you an call both performance if you like, but there is a substantial difference!

I don't think I need reminder since I'm not trailing away from that topic really. I know I write a lot but I do try my best to be concise and on point. Acknowledging chunter's assertion that there is a performance involved with submitting music to BotB was like, a super tiny fraction of what I wrote so Idk why I'm getting hate for a detour concession as if it was my entire point.

I already knew before I started this thread there would be two main types of responses, people who think there's overall validity in saying live performance is important, and people who don't. The whole point of me presenting logic to my definitions and showing their relationships is to prove that performance itself is broad and can span multiple areas without becoming invalid, and for us to discuss it more in depth. Particularly live performance.

For example you've said you don't have any idea what do with your own music in a live setting, but what I'm saying is that there is more to a performance that just playing the parts.

i wasn't trying to throw hate your way! unless you mean my hæits on comments, which imo is spelled differently for a reason. i just think you're getting too theoretical/academic about something that i think is more straightforward for most people under most practical purposes.

to continue with my example, there are definitely more aspects to performance than e.g. playing an instrument, but for me they do not validate the performance as a whole in the way that creating music in some way before an audience would.

I just want to point out that generative music exists. I use random cycling and generative programming to make parts "realistic" and keep drum fills from being the same all the time. One of the ways to approach a "performance" that must be programmed in advance is to create new versions and arrangements to suit the venue. This also creates a version that you can offer separately or never offer at all, making the experience unique for the people attending.

I don't buy the idea of being incomplete for choosing not to share art. Singing with your family used to be an ordinary way to pass time.

@Jangler,
lol well the point of me throwing out all the heavy theoretical stuff has been already demonstrated by Xyz. If I'm gonna throw out some seemingly assumptive ideas that are new to people, I don't want to spend too much time getting derailed by 'well that's just like, your opinions man'. Cos they're not just opinions, they're actually logically sound ideas which can stand on their own and be practically applied as long as fallacies aren't thrown into them. Like if someone wants to say 'well X doesn't count as a performance' or 'well Y doesn't count as music', it's easy to refute and easy to show why it's refuted if it doesn't stand up against the logic of what I'm saying.

Jeez okay, anyway all that's seriously really not even the point.

The stuff I really want to discuss is stuff like your thoughts on live performances. You, gtap, nerdmcboon, and doxic all have said essentially the same things regarding your music Vs performing it in a live setting. And honestly I've always felt the same as you all, but lately my thoughts on it have been changing.

But my question for you is, regarding some live performance of you music, can you imagine some thematic element that would be associated with the music you enjoy making? Like your avatar for example. Why did you choose it? What does it mean? Did you have something in mind of how other people would react to it?

Things like our avatars are part of the digital performance we put on. Like I was a frog for the longest time(still am to a lot of people probably), and that image was associated with my music somehow.

Can you understand what I'm digging at here? You say there's no way you can connect your tracker music with a live audience, but I think it's because you're not thinking about it from the right angle.

Trying to convince someone to do something they don't want to do is a nature trail to hell in 3d. Especially if there's nothing in it for them.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything, it's supposed to just be a fucking discussion. Jesus fucking christ, like every post I make is followed up with resistance to something that doesn't even exist. I actually had a bigger point to get at that I feel would be enlightening and fun to discuss, but just fuck it

Like it really just too much to expect anymore from forum discussion than "THIS IS MY OPINION, SUCK IT! LOL" and "IDC ABOUT ANYTHIIIIINNNG! LOL"

I don't have a problem with it and had things to add, but your question itself is confrontational and it gets dumb when people start repeating themselves.

i'd like to hear your bigger point, gyms! (edit: because i don't think we're really getting anywhere here.) personally i don't see much thematic unity to my music; it has some common idiosyncrasies but tbh most of the time it's hardly even self-expression in that it does not reflect my prevailing thoughts and emotions. it can be fun to write tho

also i think semantics and formal logic are sort of necessarily separate but i don't want to get all wittgenstein up in here

Yeah ngl I got a bit lost in this logic/semantics discussion of what performance is and isn't so I would like to hear your overarching idea and how it relates to the original question of "why aren't you performing your original music irl to expand your audience by stretching the boundaries of your comfort zone"

Edit: also I feel that there's a big difference between performing by yourself vs performing in a group, and the expectations placed on a solo performer may be one reason why some people hold no interest in performing that way

(Excuse me if this sounds a little prideful or weird, but it's the only way I can describe it)


Well my point is still valid I believe, and for me it's not really the ridicule or criticism that I'm afraid of. I wrote my music the way I did because something in me wanted it like that, and I think that the beauty and emotion and soul of my music would be lost on the majority of people. When I perform my soul is laid bare before people and I guess in my mind if the art presented has a large possibility to be shunned or put down it just doesn't seem worth the effort me. My music is out there for those who want to listen to it, I'm much happier writing for friends and sharing with them than to get Infront of crowds with it. But I could be wrong in my thinking

A bit late now, but I'm confused that my post about _live_ performance, in a thread specifically asking about live performance, was met with a response in the vein of "but there's other kinds of performance too!"

I feel like my "painting" analogy is going to have to expand to cover sculpting, carpentry, and astrophysics before this discussion is all said and done.

Its not good

I played solo and in bands in the folk punk scene for nearly a decade in the Southeast US but I haven't played live in 3 years since moving across the country. I'm working on some recordings now, and plan on getting back on stage within the year. I'm pretty lucky to have a bud who is super tied into the local music scene who can get me shows when I'm ready. I'm going to be playing music that is just LSDj and vocals so it'll probably be weird for me since I come from an acoustic background.

EDIT: After looking through the rest of the thread I see there is alot of discussion about the merit of live performance. I'd argue that live performance is important to personal growth with music in a big way. I don't even mean that you need to change to appease crowds or anything, but feeding off of a crowd is a great way to reconsider your own assumptions about your art.

i think doxic's on to something there as well. theres a element of preference - i prefer to show my songs to you guys because im less likely to get a 'uh huhh huhh this sounds like mario' response, which ive p much gotten from irl friends. you're more likely to get to the bottom of what my music's about rather than a surface scan.

i think its too much to ask for people that dont listen to chip to appreciate it in the way the artist intends, not even vaguely.

I had a teacher who intentionally linked stage fright to the social/sexual need to procreate as an oversimplified way to illustrate that stage fright is imagined and incorrect. Sure, being concerned that your performance will be misunderstood is expected. I think it's safe to guess that less than 10% of the spectators at any performance really care about what's happening most of the time, depending on how well the performer and venue are matched. Stories of people having equipment broken or objects thrown while performing are rare in the scheme of things, and only become "normalized" if you're playing 100 or more shows per year I would think.

If you see a therapist about anxiety issues, you might want to run your ideas by the therapist first.

As for my own anecdote, in college my main way to record without using their equipment was with an FM synth beefed up with a Sound Blaster card when I ran out of voices, and if I wanted a vocal, I'd sing along as it recorded to cassette and I had to nail it in one take. I'd show it to people who would say it sounded like a Sega and at the time it didn't occur to me to own it and take it as a compliment. What if I had, instead of feeling embarrassed about it?

That's hindsight for you.

i sincerely hope that "ruin your ideas by the therapist" isn't a typo

vincmg captured my feelings perfectly. i did some open mics back when i was in college and the experience was always draining and usually not very fun. i think the one time it was fun was when i had someone to perform with whom i had co-written a song, but that guy was a FLAKE and i basically never saw him again after that.

but yeah, live performance can be terrifying, especially if you have social anxiety. i get nervous even just submitting songs to majors on here, and that's even after getting such nice feedback on my songs. i got the feeling that people at the open mics were just there to see their friends play; many would leave with the person who just played immediately after they finished performing. that sort of atmosphere doesn't lend itself to performance when you feel like you're just wasting your time and theirs. in closing, fuck normies reeeeeeeeee

Ruin your ideas by the rapist indeed.

i produce 6-minute music with 5 minutes of information, not 30-minute music with 5 minutes of information

even if i were to perform the former variety i do not have the necessary hardware manufacturing skills to comfortably produce something live for a single minute without losing the expressive power that i am used to in, say, 0cc-ft (yamaha 0cc-dx-7 when)

i am also most likely the only person in this entire city who does chiptune, but that does not matter since i also rejected a live web radio performance a few years ago

i don't perform live because i suck at guitar and i don't want to be that awkward guy having a laptop backing track while everyone else plays as a band

Long time ago I was in a bassist band and I gave concerts with others. But those times are over lol. One day I'll learn to properly play the keyboards I have around so that I can enter notes easier in the tools, but things aren't really gonna get back to live playback unless I grow few more arms so I can play all the bits myself lolololol

my favorite "audience participation" gimmick at a chip show was ap0c throwing orange ping-pong balls representing soundcloud notifications at the audience

First of all, who the heck is gonna listen to my barely polished midis in a town like this?
Secondly, experience with my dad's gigs in his many kicked-out-of bar bands, as well as my overall aversion to avoidable social gatherings has definitely turned me off from wanting to perform or showcase my work for a live audience.
Maybe if I improved my skills and made the right connections I MIGHT consider an offer, but for now I'll be focusing on improving my composition skills with what limited mental ability I can muster.

Also, if we're talking about playing an instrument or something, all I've got proficiency is singing and that's only from high school choir experience. I don't see a desire to sing by myself on an unknown stage, especially when I don't even write any songs that have lyrics in them.

I've thought about this a lot. The answer is: I wouldn't want to watch myself press the play button and then dance to my own music. If there isn't a performative element, then I'm not an artist, I'm a DJ. I don't want to be a DJ. Also, my music doesn't tend to be a good club jam. I'm working backwards in this regard, but maybe I'll compose something you can dance to one day (as opposed to sitting, with your legs crossed, scratching your chin).

As for now, I'm just making music videos for my songs. It's a nice way of tricking people into sitting down, and being respectful while they listen, which I want. I want them to follow the journey.

There are three things I'd personally need in order to feel comfortable, like I'm not wasting people's time: 1) I've got to at least pretend to play an instrument with a band. The instruments don't have to be real, and neither does the band. A few robots that light up while they pretend to play would be fine, as long as the energy was directed into something. 2) I've got to have custom visualizations, and a whole light show experience that syncs to the music and tantalizes the senses. I'd want to give people a theater-like experience they couldn't just get from good speakers in their own home, ya know? 3) A mask. It helps enable free association, maybe.

edit: 4) apparently, which I just remembered: a real drummer.

oh yeah, having someone do visuals with at least a projector helps a lot. i think equipment for that is pretty standard at venues that do electronic music?

all these reasons and more are exactly why i do it. pretty wild thread to read for sure. i guess if you guys hit up the irc, you know that i play a lot of chipmusic. overall, you generally do not hear the degree of songwriting quality that you hear in chipmusic in any other form of music. i would hope we all can agree on this, most other traditional genres of music have fairly lazy songwriting.

chipmusic by design forces me to explore the more difficult or timeconsuming practices in playing my instrument to the best of my ability in ways that i might not normally come into contact with. in the last nearly 3 years, ive learned how to play a hellish cornucopia of chiptunes on the drums and gotten a lot of support for digging as deeply as i have. ive learned a ton too, and maybe even approaching some of this stuff ive taken on is stuff that most people wouldnt try because its ergonomically offputting to give it a go.

alls i can really say getting as far as i have in playing my own tunes as well as learning so many other peoples is to keep working with whatever instrument you feel most comfortable with, and dont ever get discouraged. its been a struggle for me, and in this last 3 years ive probably only taken a total of 20 days off or so. but if you stay dedicated, the more time you put toward your instrument, the easier it becomes to take on the challenging stuff.

Obvious reasons:
One has to gid gud first, before even thinking of live performances.

Less obvious reasons:
1. Social reclusiveness
2. Such kind of performances aren't even a thing in a s**hole i live in

Mostly I haven't gotten around to it. I can actually play a few non electronic instruments, so I think playing something like piano live, would be easier than having to do a sort of DJ thing live.

I love the stage. It's my time. If people can't handle the way I spam the airhorn sample then they are bad people. I've been playing in bands since high school. Got a guitar when I was 15 then my sophomore year there were a bunch of freshmen grungies. 4 of them played guitar so I picked up the bass (also PRIMUS). I've done countless shows between live bands and b-knox. Started out doing breakcore; it was a slow transition to my chip side as it is today (waiting for famitracker).

I totally get the sentiment about not wanting to be a DJ. My father always asks me if I'm still doing my "techno" music. I like to say I'm a novelty act.

My live rig consists of two copies of winamp running via virtual cable to renoise which handles inputs (VIC20 and ukulele (mine died I need a new one)) and also loops into itself so I can apply effects in real time. I seem to have a pretty solid voice (I often hear people say I'm crooning) and I try to write songs that feature that as it is a very live element. The VIC20 paddle-controlled noise scratching is good for that too. And the airhorn. I like to get drunk and really get into it. What's the point of covering trololo if you don't smile and bob back and forth on the stage?

And I love it. It's my time. Crowd interaction is fun, I like to kid and talk shit. I'm kind of a quiet person in a crowd unless I discover intriguing dialog or (a) friend(s) is there. The point is my mouth moves and my brain follows. It's kind of a state of zen. I fuck up lyrics commonly, but if you do it with pizzazz then it's all part of the show.

Hi! I just wanted to chime in as someone who has done quite a bit of performing and touring but have also faced basically all of the complaints, defeats, and deterrents mentioned so far.

Also! So we're clear up front, this is 100% said in the spirit of encouragement and there is literally no reason to feel any guilt if you feel like performance just ain't gonna happen for you or you don't want it to. But! If there is some latent interest, I am super duper an enabler for stuff that I think is good and wild. I have absolutely crushing anxiety, but I've found that performing has actually become immensely beneficial in managing it (and to just be a really awesome thing over all). Even getting through it just once to prove to yourself you fucking can is a serious accomplishment, sufferer of mental illness or not.
_{(Sorry, this is gonna be stupid long. In fact, this will be the longest post of the thread. If it starts to sound dumb or self-important, please read it in the most wretched, nasally, and pathetic voice you can muster and make exaggerated gagging sounds after every sentence)}

So, first of all, to answer the thread question directly:
I perform quite a bit, but the compositions I make for the compos here don't feel suited to what I like to do live (though I've pulled some short ones up for interludes, that Metal V song I couldn't finish in time is definitely a performance ready thing, and some other stuff is appropriate and could easily be made to work). Overall, I'm just writing stuff here to challenge my own composition skills and occasionally learn a new program/format, just like everyone else, and have other ways I approach music that might be performed.

So maybe you actually do want to perform, despite a repertoire that just isn't right. What you probably need to do is find a totally different kinda thing to perform ^or write some new stuff/make arrangements of old, with performance in mind that keeps more of what you've already got going on, represented. I think we're all here in large part because we like challenges, dramatic format shifts, and thematic prompts for composition that will be heard by an audience. Basing something on "for live performance" is inherently within all of those criteria. Maybe you don't know the specifics of your performance yet, but we'll get there.

When I started, I had music written [for "Bubblegum Octopus"] that I decided "well, maybe I try to play this stuff at the high school battle of the bands this year..." but had absolutely no idea what to do to make it a performance, because it was melodic instrumental stuff (same problem I had when I was making terrible electro-baroque crap a year earlier). After a lot of trial and error based on what knowledge and abilities I, at 16 possessed, I decided that trying to play the written parts back was stupid for that music, and instead tried to add vocals and do things I had been afraid to try with my voice. This moved my compositions and perspective in totally new directions

. From there, just having that construct in place, the idea that there was a "vocalist" for this project (me) influenced what I wrote (though even years later some things

routinely still ended and end up outside what makes sense for live)

Also, my voice, mercifully, improved

with practice and age.
_{(to the point where I actually think I sound pretty... good?? on the upcoming record..??)}

I think finding some construct, or limitation, or whatever frame fits best, is key, especially early on, to making something performable. If you write a piece for an ensemble, the instruments have notes they can and can't play, people have limitations, and it all acts to give plausibility and guidance to the piece as a work for performance. Neither performable work nor completely unperformable work is superior, it's just different.

Over time, as I began to actually play shows with regularity and then tour, I started learning more about what I really wanted to do, by watching other people, by reviewing what I'd done, talking to people about what I'd done (like... IRL voting or something), asking people what they do, and by looking at what hardware and software had to offer me. This is also the process that continues to this day.

_{For the sake of transparency, my current live rig is Ableton running multitrack backing tracks, a MIDI controller that I built, based on my needs, which is controlling effects on each track, a theremin running through a pedalboard assembled over the years that I feel comfortable with for different types of noise, an Electribe ES-1 so that I can add/replace/alter/write beats on the fly or perpetuate rhythm in the absence of a track playing, a LaunchPadS so that I can trigger samples, tracks, and track elements without needing to poke around on my laptop, and of course a mic.}

My live rig/performance ideals come out of 11+ years of playing hundreds of shows, doing self-booked tours across the entire US well over a dozen times (and abroad, to Japan), for this one specific project, fretting and obsessing over its improvement, playing in other contexts, and going to/watching live performances with the same kind of critical/analytical eyes and ears that we all give music composition and production. You have to actually want to play, first, and then you gotta just try stuff and make mistakes!


The second big thing I wanna address is the notion that "there's nothing for me in *this place*"

1. You may well just not know of it yet
2. You may be the one who will start it
3. There is elsewhere

Mobility may be an issue for any number of reasons, so perhaps getting out of your area is not an option, HOWEVER, if it IS, you're in luck, because there are chiptune shows frickin all over the place, and despite the modern, live chipscene's reputation for cliqueyness, toxic nerddom, and EDM, it's still the most generally accepting and vibrant music scene I've crossed paths with. There are also breakcore shows, noise shows, and all manner of other types of experimental/outsider/fringe electronic shows hiding and popping up throughout the land, and while your mileage with a given place and venue and show may vary, I've found that the vast majority are pretty interested in having new stuff happen.
Also, DIY/smaller punk shows are actually pretty open minded, if you can believe it. I've had some of my best experiences being the only electronic and/or only "weird" act on a bill.

The problem with becoming aware of where this stuff is happening, be it in your own neighborhood or thousands of miles away, is that efforts to promote smaller/DIY type efforts are smaller by both circumstance (less resources) and necessity (often they exist in legal grey areas, can't risk turnout being out of control and attracting people just there to drink/smoke/party, or they might be flat out illegal). Looking at the bars and clubs in your area probably won't tell you if anything cool is actually happening unless you've got a special place in your area.
I think the best thing you can do is hit up bands and artists in a given area you're lookin at and just see what they say about shows.
The other thing about scene building is that people might just not know that there's potential for something else until they see it.

Also, one shitty show or a dozen shitty shows does not mean that all your shows are going to suck forever. It can definitely be pretty devastating. I've had a room empty and another band set up during my set and just start playing over me, a crowd of 200+ people booing me and telling me to kill myself, people trying to fight me after shows, I've been robbed, assaulted, screamed at and badgered by intoxicated d-bags, and tons of shows where the sound system was really bad (or even entirely unusable) or no one showed up or cared but I'm still sitting here typing hundreds of words trying to not-so-subtly encourage you to try (or try again a new way) because I think the positives outweigh the bad. Threats to safety notwithstanding (THOSE ARE INCREDIBLY RARE, I PROMISE) everything is just challenges, and you gotta learn to roll with the punches, and with experience and/or a really good attitude, you do. I know that sounds "bootstrappsy" but it's not intended that way, if you can find a different way to interpret the words. An enthusiastic and energetic, all-you've-got performance on a blown out guitar amp is probably going to leave a good impression, not just on others but to yourself, and then when you play the shows where the sound system kills or there's a crowd that is going wild, whatever, you're going to just annihilate and It Will Feel Good. Like those OHBs that feel designed to undermine your abilities, you find ways to make it work anyway, and then the ones where everything is just right, you just get to frickin' shine.

+1 to Sethdonut's mention of doing your own viz to your music for a performance. This is valid and very welcome at chip shows.

+1 to learning an instrument, as mentioned by shawnphase and others as well, but you also don't even need to learn a "traditional" instrument. Buy an old electribe or a beatstep or something. There are soooo many electronic music performance tools (which you'll get better use out of if you think of as an "instrument" instead of "tool") out there these days.

Oh, by the way, fuck open mics. A lot of chip shows have open mics that actually work and people usually listen, but every coffeehouse or venue open mic I've seen or heard of is total garbage.

...
Okay, last thing, I promise!

If you do want to play shows but just really don't know what to do or where to start, I am offering right here to try to help you! And as an added bonus, I can give you specific people to talk to about shows (though i'm honestly only particularly good for stuff in the states). I can't promise anything obviously, but I wanna do what I can the way certain extraordinary people

did for me when I was uncertain how to keep going. Just like... twitter DM me or comment on my profile or something if you want that.

Also, I have played shows with at least three active BotBrs too, so it's definitely not just me and the people who have already said they perform that can maybe lend a hand for the "hows" and "whos" of all this (^^;;
_{I've retyped this like 10 times, I hope this doesn't end up being annoying}

Bubblegum Octopus is the only botber to date to have met me in person. I think his backing track was LSDJ on song mode at the time, but that was 8 or 9 years ago. To find the exact date, look in my YouTube account or consider that Fireflies played in the radio as a "new" song when we were driving home.

I perform too, but on my guitar, alone or with a small band or just a singer, or also with other music intruments such as cello, violin, or chamber music. I performed in public places such as bars or at school, but also in parties or with my family (even once in a castle for a big aniversary party lol)

But I don't play chiptunes live at all.. the whole DJ thing always seemed kind of silly to me. It kills a bit the purpose of interpretation or improvisation on stage! My non chiptune composition style is totally different and weird, with some pop, rock, flamenco, and classical music influences.

The chiptune side is more intended to help me improve as a composer, creating music out of thin air, and because I love the very underrated beauty and possibilities of the chiptune music world!

Whoa, Chunter, where was the show? My old rig was laptop playing backing tracks and two delay pedals on my vocals for noise hahaha

I play drums at church

A videogame store in Statesboro, GA, most of the acts ditched, minusbaby double booked. There were four acts that day. My then girlfriend is my wife now.

@BubblegumOctopus
Thanks for taking the time and care to share your thoughts and experiences with us in such detail. Your post is seriously amazing. I know I'll be rereading and referencing it many times.

Hey can we get that post into the lyceum?

this thread has turned into nice positive discussion thanks to people like puke, chunter, bubblegumoctopus, and more -- very good!! thank you guys wow

Im glad my post helped anyone!

Also Chunter, I remember that show!! Gamesboro! Did you play? I remember throwing my shoe into the audience and it offending very severely this dude who was flirting with one of my tourmates.

Well. I've been encouraged for sure, if nothing else this discussion has made me start to think of other ways to compose and perform my scribbles. (I.E. a delay, looper and overdrive pedal setup with my electric guitar and do some ambient music thataway)

@Bubblegum, while I've never performed in those kinds of situations, I have had my share of bad performances and I totally agree with you on the bad shows foreshadowing all future ones. My worst memory was playing and singing my heart out Infront of 200+ people and not getting a single clap or anything and being ushered off stage. Then I've gone to the opposite extreme of an audience of 500+ giving a standing ovation. I've studied voice with opera professors and have been singing Infront of crowds since I was 9 and I feel I've just now come into my own and have started to actually excel at what I'm doing.
And even with all that, as gyms mentioned, I haven't mastered and I hope to never master my instrument, and hope to keep learning new techniques and stretching my voice to new lengths.

So thanks for all the ideas, perhaps my musical ideas that have been haunting me for the past three years will come to fruition

btw I apologize for blowing up earlier at a few people.

What I was trying to present would clip outside the possible range of forum discussion. chunter's right, it would have just devolved into a dumb feedback loop.

I wanted to at least point to where it was leading to tho and close it up in summary.

Basically the identity of what I'm trying to convey here: take John Cage's 4'33". There's no sound at all, there's no instrumental performance. Would you call it music? By my logical definitions, yes! There is a composition, and there is a performance. Performance itself contains a wide array of elements, and a particular performance is merely a subset of these elements. There are a lot of possibilities and implications with this.

(and in the the context of _Live Performance_, there are certainly many other ways you can perform the music outside of 'just pressing play' if you expand your thoughts on what the elements of performance actually are. I have many examples to demonstrate what this means exactly)

For the sake of throwing something a bit more constructive into the pile, one of the big reasons I haven't pursued live-performance space yet is explicitly because I would want to do something substantial beyond "just push play", whether that be mucking aboot with hardware, playing an instrument, doing vocals, or whatnot.

As such, there's quite a learning curve (self-imposed, admittedly) to going that route. It's still something I want to do some day, but my interests haven't shifted in that direction just yet. Still working on cool stuff in present-land, between writing stuff, attempting to figure out the mixing/mastering puzzle (bleh), and doing non-music stuff like mod/game design. My plate's quite full... of appetizing metaphorical foodstuffs. :P

I am performing my first live show in over 10 years on 22 April. You can watch me and seven other chiptuners (with proceeds going to charity) at twitch.com/chiptunes4autism !

That being said, I had to build a pretty good live setup. I found a visuals person to work with. I bought a synthesizer so I had something to do onstage. It's still a work in progress but I love doing it.

Sometimes the biggest obstacle is just finding a place to have you. Open mics are a good place to do that. I have also found if you can share a beer with the owner, it usually greases the gears if you catch my meaning.

But bring a crowd with you. If you can bring a couple of other musicians and just squeeze out a dozen friends or so from Facebook, people are more likely to book you even if you're farting on a kazoo. In the end, a venue doesn't care how you sound, as long as people are there spending money.

Yes, I played last https://youtu.be/nNTcGe0wg-Q

Hell yeah, I definitely remember your set and have often wondered what your artist name is. My tournates and I were very glad you included that Daytona sample at the end :P

That's actually relevant to this thread,

I wasn't sure how I should approach the gig, so I had 4 methods prepared and eventually performed them all:

I started playing half-prepared half-jammed tunes with a Nintendo DS and Korg DS-10. Not sure if this worked as an ice breaker, but suited playing in a video game store.

I switched to Schism Tracker where I had a pattern or two carved out for jamming.

Then I switched to completely prerecorded tracks and started singing. This was the strongest approach, but I don't know if it is because a sung pop song makes it more testable, if I could just see the audience better from having less to think about, or what...

The last bit was an alternation of backing tracks and the trackers to reduce load time and instrument switch waits, me playing along on the synthesizer for two things and the guitar on the last.

My reasoning was that if I had a tech failure or if an approach didn't seem to work, I could just skip to the next one, but that also meant a lot of stuff to pack and a lot of gear on the table.