Hi,

I'm curious what the consensus would be on the idea of a classical liveplay major.

The idea would be to take a few weeks to learn an actual piece and practice to the point you could perform it. Any instrument goes, but the idea is to practice something that would be pushing your technical abilities as a musician...enough that you'd legitimately need to practice something for a few weeks. It could be anything that's suited to challenge your current level of playing.

The main issue would be voting, since some people have been playing x instrument longer than others. I think we'd have to vote based on musicality, and perhaps discuss and clarify what musicality is. aka, you can play the crap out of some technical piece but it can still sound boring, lifeless and robotic.

And I suppose it doesn't have to be just classical pieces, but anything that would take you a few weeks of practice to get down and perform for us.

idk what do you guys think?

I'd actually feel more for something where we liveplay our own original compositions. :P

If it's classical I feel we should be free to rearrange it to the very least. If only to make it more playable with my level of skill. ;)

Hey, maybe I can join this major since I am a trombone!

yea, i suppose liveplay of our own compositions would be more suitable to what botb is about.

this idea stemmed from talking to moot about classical pieces, about how he's never really been a big classical player but is noticing how technically demanding and challenging it is compared to most other types of music.

my thoughts on this kind of compo: the unique focus would be challenging ourselves to concentrate on improving our playing. but yea, i suppose it'd be quite a challenge to learn some of my own tracker compositions.

What kind of songs would we be playing? Is this like a cover major or do we make an original and play it?

Tromboner you should do a Fairlight song using all the brass trombonery sounds :D

Also, sorry, I didn't want to derail the thread.
I am really into this idea (of course)...It should be implemented in whatever way would be the most level playing field, give the most interesting musical results, and most importantly, helps everyone to grow as a musician.

I almost never play music live these days. But I think I have a piano that I can technically use... just expect lots of inconsistency... and potentially really long pieces of music.

a chance to play piano live? +1

i need to learn how to play piano better so yes agree

actually it does sound kind of fun

does it need to be classical? i have only a melodica and an acoustic guitar (i dont have a midi controller) so if im gonna join this i doubt pretty much i'd be able to do something classical (i also doubt i'd be able to do something that's actually a 'thing', but okay)
(nvm i just read the "I suppose it doesn't have to be just classical pieces" part srry)

tailz,

the idea behind it would be to sit down a practice Anything that would be legitimately challenging enough that'd it'd take 3 weeks of practicing daily or every other day. i mentioned classical mainly cos it's written music, it's technically challenging and there is a lot of it to choose from.

but i realize not everyone can read music. but hey, i'm hoping perhaps something like this could encourage people to start reading! the goal would be to improve as a musician on whatever your main instrument is.

we have enough trained musicians on the site who could help those who might be very very new to playing something or are unsure how the hell to even spend three weeks on one thing.

but i think it'd be an incredible joy to hear what everyone spent three weeks preparing, no matter the skill level.

oh good! in a few weeks i think i can compose a thing that is in a level that i would be able to play in those three weeks
this is a great idea and i support this, +1

I support anything that gives me a reason to practice two-hand tapping for 3 weeks straight.

could we play using a computer keyboard????


haha that might be insane


also would we be able to do multiple takes for multiple instruments kind of

eh, practicing a computer keyboard is a cute idea but the proposed idea, the whole purpose, is to encourage people to pick up a REAL instrument(you know what this means~) and learn a musical piece that would require you to practice in order to conquer it and perform for us.

of course, there's a difference between picking up an instrument and having fun jamming around on it, and sitting down to practice something(you enjoy~) that is a challenge or beyond your current technical faculties.

aka, you'd be challenging yourself. in the fancypants world of classical training and paid private lessons, this is what they have you do(except there's a teacher right next to you giving you feedback). you practice scales and arpeggios and whatever buttpoop boring stuff, but the bread and butter of consistent improvement and progress on that instrument is sitting down with pieces YOU ENJOY(important!!!) and learning how to play them.

I'm not sure if spending 3 weeks on a compo should be an ideal to strive for. It's awesome if it ends up being great, but I'm missing the balance here.

We have real lives too!

i know it's taboo to take anything *too seriously around here, and i'm a pretty serious guy overall so my ideas are gonna be along those lines, but overall i'd like to see this kind of thing happen. and i think moot said it well:

"It should be implemented in whatever way would be the most level playing field, give the most interesting musical results, and most importantly, helps everyone to grow as a musician."

It's not spending 3 weeks on anything! It's practicing as much as is reasonably necessary for you to learn whatever piece by the time the compo is over. A challenge. The compo is less of a competition and more of an incentive to improve your liveplay skills.
The hard part is coming up with a piece that challenges you personally. Someone who is already very skilled at an instrument could get bored playing something that is very challenging for a novice. The compo would have to be based on how well you played the piece at your skill level, not so much on musical merit or difficulty level.

yeah but some of us are old. :D

I'd totally do this on a computer keyboard if I had one that didn't have key-ghosting issues.

also, latency

unless you want me to dig out my old rebranded Casio SA-1 [does the thing even work?], haha

Could be fun, but I'm not dedicated to anything. Like, anything.

I can't play an instrument (kinda) but I'd probably try to acapella-ize something.

dibs on acapella collab with cranman

I'd disallow multi-track recording and overdubbing, if anything. :P

If you wanna do acapella, know you have only one voice! So you better practice singing some fast arpeggios~

Oh, uh, that completely rules that out then. I'd not be able to do anything for this.

[EDIT] Hmm, while I'm not keen on this idea any more and in the interests of full disclosure it's largely a egoish "i can't do that so I don't really like it" sorta thing, I'm doing some re-thinking and I'm not really sure this is a "just me" thing entirely.

The trouble with such a compo is that it's going to exclude a lot of folks by its nature, and it runs kinda counter to what to what BotB is about: composition. Performance is a huge aspect of musical talent that I'm certainly not trying to de-emphasize (disclaimer: i'm obscenely impressed with folks who can play real instruments, 'cause dayum that's hard), but it's a completely different circle in a venn diagram that lots o' people won't be a member of. I can't play an instrument to save my life, to again use myself as the silly example, and what talents I might have are irrelevant enough that I just plain wouldn't be able to complete (i.e. it's not like learning a new chip format).

I don't want to stop folks from doing this outright, mind you, it's just I'm afraid of it becoming a major that would replace/displace "on-topic" compositional stuffs. If a one-take liveplay thing was the only major on BotB for a time period, it'd be akin to saying "Okay, you guys have to sit out of BotB for a while."

Then again, we DID have Doom as the sole major when I first showed up, so maybe I have no reason to be blowing hot air here. xD

i dunno i feel like multitrack recording should be allowed but one instrument only instead.

i say this because if multitrack/no overdubbing is put in place, that already puts piano at an advantage over literally everything else and possibly guitar/guitar family instruments too since those instruments can do multiple notes and parts at once while a lot of all monophonic instruments can't.

i don't feel like overdubbing with one instrument only would take out the value of this compo idea since then if you have a monophonic instrument, you would be encouraged to learn all the parts to the song you are playing and make a sort of one-man/woman/wtf/wow/cutie-symphony with your instrument of choice. you'd actually have to do a bit more and i think the entries would be better because we wouldn't just be hearing super amazing piano and then some what is this 1 channel poop crap with a nonpiano instrument.

If we do this I so want to do a cover of one of my entries here

Actually, I see a point in allowing multi-track recording for those who play a monophonic instrument. (including singing) I said it basically because I don't want people to combine drums, keyboard, guitar, bass guitar, vocals, etc, or combine two or more piano/guitar tracks.

I'd still want a polyphony limit. Maybe a 5 channel limit? :P Keyboardists and guitarists are still limited by their span and agility.

i don't think any channel limits should be put in place either because that again favours keyboardguitarists since they can do multiple notes. and i already said we should have a one instrument limit!!!

But golgi, I don't want THIS to happen!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DekTSh1QmvY

if anyone actually plays something of that difficulty on multipart that would actually be impressive wtf!!!!!!!

Well, you can break up 64th notes into two tracks where you play 32th notes, and if 32th notes are too fast for you, you can break it up into 4 tracks where you play 16th notes, etc etc.

Depending on your level of virtuosity it might end up in a lot of tracks, but it's still very possible.

It's also where it feels much more like digital audio production to me rather than it's one person liveplaying.

I think we lost the point of this thread many posts ago!
The idea was to challenge yourself. That may include playing "Circus Galop" (lol) or it may include playing "Mary had a little lamb". It wasn't "compo for good instrument players to intimidate n00bz", it was "compo to get better at something." I really believe that was the spirit of gyms' idea (correct me if I'm wrong).

On the contrary, we already agree on this compo being a good thing.

But an important question still remains....should we allow multi-track recording or not? And if so, in which forms should it be allowed?

It'd be nice if we can reach more of a general consensus on what the exact limitations/rules would be. There's a lot of way to interpret bend them otherwise.

@moot: " I really believe that was the spirit of gyms' idea"

yea it was, but it looks like the specifics of my idea are a bit too serious and turn off for some. but i think what we've all come up with so far:

-yes, we wanna do something like this
-multi-track is ok for monophonic instruments(needs clarification)
-any instrument you want(even *sigh* a computer keyboard. might as well throw spoons and lap slaps in there as well...)
-it seems we need to be performing our own compositions(needs clarification)

I suppose going with the idea, I'd rather see no real limits on multitrack recording, that way it's possible for multi-instrumental full-remakes of stuff in addition to one-or-two instrument "acoustic" versions. If someone goes Hertzdevil on a piano and submits that, it'd make more sense to leave it to the voters to decide.

This might turn it into "Moot Wins: the Compo", but still. :P

i'm weary about imposing no multitrack limit cos then it's basically Just Yer Average liveplay compo.

perhaps a better way of looking at this is to say, "hey just create a feasible arrangement for your instrument!'

that would mean, if you're playing a tromBONEr then you would need to write an arrangement for a boner quartet and this would of course be your track limit.

i'd still like to kind of have a 'real world' focus on the instruments.

perhaps think about an irl situation where you'd hand out music to people and play together, what would you write and how many people would realistically be taking part? perhaps think about it, execute and write a bit about it in your description when you submit. this description could be an element you'd consider when voting.

something like that

well who is to judge realism? i mean you could go and say "wow fuk u i have a 300 trombone player band in irl life so that's realistic"

i do think a one instrument restriction would be better because then it seems it'd be less of a "Just Yer Average liveplay compo"

I think if we can work out the specifics of this, it will be a great thing. It's just a little fuzzy but the picture is getting clearer.
Something that challenges everyone is the key. Liveplay is obviously my strong suit, and there should be a way to set things up so those in that boat do not have an unfair advantage. it needs to be something that pushes everyone's boundaries.
Of course, this is how I feel entering s3xmodit compos ;)

@golgi, "" well who is to judge realism? i mean you could go and say "wow fuk u i have a 300 trombone player band in irl life so that's realistic" ""

well i for one would certainly judge that and say it is unrealistic :P

as far as keeping things even and fair, a keyboardist has access to playing (without too much trouble)three things at once: bassline, accompaniment and melody. we have ten fingers, but realistically if you're playing a full solo piano arrangement, the most notes you'll be playing at once, on average, is 6.

so i'd propose a 6 track limit for monophonic instruments. this gives you 1 track for bass, 4 tracks for comp and 1 for the melody.

This would be a great excuse to master the pianica once and for all.

It would become even better once I've saved up enough to get an accordion.

people spitting out prerehearsed melodies and motifs we've all heard a hundred times before and being voted purely on technical proficiency and adherence to a strict score is not a new kind of compo on battle of the bits

*shots fired*

you are just jealous!

before we had an hour to possibly do it! now we have two weeks

shots have already been fired multiple times since the original post, ant1 i think you're readdressing something that was already discussed.

I would really appreciate this, I could always use some extra motivation to practice.