Chipmusic, Fakebit and the Discourse of Authenticity in the Chipscene
BotB Academy Bulletins
 
 
41332
Level 25 Chipist
HertzDevil
 
 
 
post #41332 :: 2014.04.17 2:57am
  
  raphaelgoulart and Slimeball hæitd this
http://widerscreen.fi/numerot/2014-1-2/chipmusic-fakebit-discourse-authenticity-chipscene/

[17:52:50] HertzDevil 赫茲惡魔: http://widerscreen.fi/assets/WS-MP-Figure-1.png
[17:56:25] Sean Latham: fakebit denotes the areas to kill
[17:57:31] HertzDevil 赫茲惡魔: i agree that ubiktune, noisechannel, and tumblr are all linked to fakebit
[17:57:38] HertzDevil 赫茲惡魔: correlates with their actual quality
 
 
41335
Level 16 Pedagogist
n00b
 
 
post #41335 :: 2014.04.17 3:17am
  
  Flaminglog, raphaelgoulart, goluigi, irrlicht project and Slimeball liēkd this
No Botb, no n00bz......? NO n00Bz??!!

Forgetting a big part of the whole "tsjipzean" imho. ;-p
Hadn't had time to read the much re-blogged article/paper at source yet. thb not interested either. I don't mind giving things a place, but discussions on what's real chip, what's not, are you hardcore, are you a faker.. Damn, I survived my highschool, just lemme be n00b and enjoy this blipblop music and visuals and creativity.

undifined n00b, format not found
 
 
41337
Level 25 Chipist
HertzDevil
 
 
 
post #41337 :: 2014.04.17 3:26am :: edit 2014.04.17 3:38am
  
  raphaelgoulart liēkd this
why is woolyss not linked to fakebit

there is a large difference between actual fine fakebit and those who leech SF2s and VSTi's even though the latter essentially dumbs down the general public's conception of "fakebit" as a whole
 
 
41338
Level 28 Renderist
Slimeball
 
 
 
post #41338 :: 2014.04.17 3:38am
  
  Flaminglog, raphaelgoulart, goluigi and HertzDevil liēkd this
Henceforth I wil forbid my children to ever study at Oxford's Faculty of Music.
 
 
41339
Level 23 Chipist
irrlicht project
 
 
 
post #41339 :: 2014.04.17 3:42am
  
  tothejazz, ArtRemix, Flaminglog, gotoandplay, Xaser, raphaelgoulart, SketchMan3, HertzDevil and Slimeball liēkd this
I'm amazed at how much text some people can write without making a point whatsoever.
 
 
41348
Level 16 Pedagogist
n00b
 
 
post #41348 :: 2014.04.17 4:28am
  
  raphaelgoulart and Slimeball liēkd this
The article is still tl:dr for me, but to get at that pic: it is put together with google stuff, connecting things because she googled "‘8(-)bit’, ‘chiptune(s)’, ‘chipmusic’, ‘micromusic’, and ‘fakebit’".

Seeing Last-FM, twitter and youtube in the centre of it all: this schematic says more about how google is connecting search results than that it would be a good starting point in looking at a "culture" (feeling like a bacteria in a petri dish now....).

ánd surprised she didn't get a bunch of car-pimping websites in the graph either.... (neither chipflip.org or botb.... as said before)

ánd as google is deciding what you'll be seeing based on your proxy, this isn't a very representative graph at all, just what you'd retrieve through the proxy of the oxford uni.... when you're logged in as ms polymere.
 
 
41358
Level 25 Chipist
Fearofdark
 
 
 
post #41358 :: 2014.04.17 5:29am :: edit 2014.04.17 5:30am
  
  cce, marcb0t, Flaminglog and ElHuesudoII liēkd this
In all honesty, "fakebit" is a term that needs to suffer a painful death, along with 8bit.
 
 
41360
Level 16 Pedagogist
n00b
 
 
post #41360 :: 2014.04.17 5:30am
  
  cce hæitd this
  
  Aquellex, tothejazz, Xaser, raphaelgoulart, HertzDevil, goluigi and Slimeball liēkd this
whattabout hæitbit :D
 
 
41361
Level 28 Renderist
Slimeball
 
 
 
post #41361 :: 2014.04.17 5:43am
  
  Xaser, raphaelgoulart and goluigi liēkd this
The day golgi suffered a painful death at the hands of Fearofdark after he expressed his love for 8 bit poop crap RIP golgi we still miss you.sho
 
 
41362
Level 23 Chipist
irrlicht project
 
 
 
post #41362 :: 2014.04.17 5:48am
  
  cce and Slimeball liēkd this
 
 
41367
Level 29 Mixist
goluigi
 
 
 
........... *sniffles* ........... *chokes on tears* w-w-what is this 8 b-bit poop crap ..........
 
 
41384
Level 25 Chipist
HertzDevil
 
 
 
post #41384 :: 2014.04.17 8:43am
  
  goluigi, raphaelgoulart and Slimeball liēkd this
i (absolutely do not) like how this "paper" waste of bandwidth does not mention 16-bit chiptune at all
 
 
41388
Level 28 Renderist
Slimeball
 
 
 
post #41388 :: 2014.04.17 9:06am
  
  cce, goluigi, puke7 and raphaelgoulart liēkd this
I actually like Goto80's response. In contrast to the paper.

I think I like the general idea of this Oxford paper. It's just been executed horribly. :P
 
 
41392
Level 27 Chipist
raphaelgoulart
 
 
 
post #41392 :: 2014.04.17 9:23am
  
  goluigi and puke7 liēkd this
what is (or was) this 16-bit poop crap
 
 
41404
Level 26 Mixist
Xaser
 
 
 
post #41404 :: 2014.04.17 11:50am
  
  marcb0t, raphaelgoulart, mootbooxle and Slimeball liēkd this
I dunno what the fuss is about. Make what you want and if it's awesome I'll like it.

(Just don't break rules on BotB compos though. :P )
 
 
41410
Level 30 Mixist
mootbooxle
 
 
 
post #41410 :: 2014.04.17 12:50pm :: edit 2014.04.17 12:58pm
  
  marcb0t, raphaelgoulart, plrusek, Savestate, goluigi, 9999HP and Slimeball liēkd this
Wow.
Everyone probably knows that I'm a purist about a lot of things. I think it's good to be as authentic as possible whenever possible.
But to say that's the ONLY right way is ridiculous! Some of the coolest music to come out of the "chipmusic" scene has been fakebit!

Really it comes down to this: if you're making something authentic, don't cheat and ruin the authenticity. (This is why when I make my analogue-only music, I won't even use a digital reverb or delay, even if it sounds better (and possibly more "realistic") than an analogue one.)
But if you're making something that stands on its own merits, and one of those just happens to be that it uses (or implies) "chip" elements, anything goes!
It's all a matter of taste in the end. Some people have a nice sense of what "works" (like Maxo et al) and some people slap together all sorts of ugly square waves and call it "chip".

Another example that comes to mind is when someone does things that wouldn't work in the real world i.e. sustain on Hammond organ or harpsichord, more than 6-note polyphony on a guitar sound, more than 4 or 6 notes (or impossible intervals) on a mallet sound, etc. If doing that to be ironic or to accentuate the fact that "this is not the real instrument" that's fine, knock yourself out!
But people tend to expect a certain set of parameters from certain sounds/instruments; That's what makes sampled versions of them still "feel" authentic. Doing anything outside of what the original instrument can do shatters that illusion, even if the listener isn't cognizant of exactly why.
The same goes for chip music. We expect, for instance, 2A03 to have two pulses, a triangle, a noise, and maybe a DPCM sample. So playing polyphonic chords using a VST approximation of those sounds makes a lot of us go "wait a minute, something's wrong here".
Again, unless that was your goal, in which case, go ahead and make a 32-channel fake NSF.

OK, sermon over. Please drop your offering in the bucket as you leave.
 
 
41412
Level 29 Hostist
puke7
 
 
 
post #41412 :: 2014.04.17 1:08pm
  
  zanzan, raphaelgoulart, Flaminglog, MKSTAR26, xterm, Slimeball and mootbooxle liēkd this
real drummers sound just like breakcore otherwise they are fakecore
 
 
41434
Level 25 Chipist
HertzDevil
 
 
 
post #41434 :: 2014.04.17 9:04pm
  
  marcb0t and raphaelgoulart liēkd this
unfortunately 32-channel NSF IS fake, and there isn't an official extension to the VGM specification that lets you use NES/Famicom expansion chips either so you cannot reach that number with VGM dual chip

but remember 32-channel is already overkill when you compare that to PSF
 
 
41435
Level 29 Mixist
goluigi
 
 
 
post #41435 :: 2014.04.17 9:24pm
  
  DimWiddy, marcb0t, tothejazz, Flaminglog, raphaelgoulart, Slimeball and Savestate liēkd this
just make cutie songongs my frends ^o^
 
 
41444
Level 24 Chipist
Tilde
 
 
 
post #41444 :: 2014.04.17 11:03pm
  
  marcb0t, 9999HP and raphaelgoulart hæitd this
  
  Savestate, MKSTAR26 and goluigi liēkd this
I hate authentic chiptune
 
 
41446
Level 25 Chipist
HertzDevil
 
 
 
post #41446 :: 2014.04.18 12:59am
  
  goluigi and Slimeball liēkd this
 
 
41460
Level 22 Chipist
plrusek
 
 
 
post #41460 :: 2014.04.18 5:49am :: edit 2014.04.18 5:58am
  
  RazerBlue6, marcb0t, DimWiddy, raphaelgoulart, goluigi and Slimeball liēkd this
as long as someone uploads a video on youtube of gxscc and names it "8-bit remix" i don't care
 
 
41465
Level 24 Chipist
Flaminglog
 
 
 
post #41465 :: 2014.04.18 9:41am
  
  marcb0t, HertzDevil, Baron Knoxburry, goluigi, mootbooxle and Slimeball liēkd this
this article does not mention famitracker even once and so any point it attempts to make is immediately null and void

also where is botb on that map

i'm crying oppression, i wasn't represented in this article
 
 
41489
Level 22 Chipist
uUni
 
 
 
post #41489 :: 2014.04.18 2:36pm
  
  DimWiddy, mootbooxle and raphaelgoulart liēkd this
I don't have a problem with fakebit music unless it's advertising itself as something it's not and will never be. I do get sort of tense when it so much as associates itself with chipmusic.
 
 
41493
Level 17 Chipist
epic_caterpillar
 
 
 
post #41493 :: 2014.04.18 4:08pm
  
  Savestate, HertzDevil, Flaminglog and goluigi liēkd this
  
  Slimeball hæitd this
this thread looks like it came straight from chipmusic.org
 
 
42134
Level 15 Chipist
marcb0t
 
 
post #42134 :: 2014.04.29 10:39pm
Hmmmm... fun conversation. Technically, NES was not 8 bit in terms of sound. Only half as much. Same thing with other old school consoles. The SMS's Z80 CUP was actually 4 bit. It just processed at a double set of 4 bits to get that full 8. The square waves from that SN76489 is also 4 bit. It is quite the misnomer these days... but we know what people mean.
The Sega Genesis was actually 8 bit for the YM2612 and could process 8 bit samples.
I am also a purist with chip, but don't mind fake bit so long it is done well. I really enjoyed fearofdark's Motorway album, and I know that polyphony is laughably way beyond any "8bit" console from the day. Very beautiful stuff he made, though.
I don't sweat it, but it's fun to talk about. A little debate can be a healthy thing.
Now in terms of these articles, I think Chiptune music can be best defined by those who know and make it, and not from a haphazard Google search.
OK, that's my opinion. Anyone want to bite my head off now?
 
 
42137
Level 30 Mixist
Baron Knoxburry
 
 
 
post #42137 :: 2014.04.29 10:54pm
  
  marcb0t, Flaminglog and Slimeball liēkd this
I'm just not sure why you think the NES's sound was 4-bit. The DPCM channel which allows sample playback, is 1-bit where a bit is on the waveform goes up and if the bit is off the waveform goes down. Other than that, as far as I know, the 2a03 uses and stores 8-bit numbers sent by a 6502-style 8-bit processor.
 
 
42141
Level 10 Chipist
Johnsfuentes
 
 
post #42141 :: 2014.04.30 3:34am
You know working out at a gym is good for you. It CHIPS off bodyfat while it TUNES up your muscles. Isn't music in general a authentic thing when you aren't looking for specifics and just enjoying it for what it is?
 
 
42147
Level 22 Chipist
Beard
 
 
 
post #42147 :: 2014.04.30 7:56am
  
  Savestate and raphaelgoulart liēkd this
I've always been on many different fences about this topic. On one hand, I would say I prefer synthesized sounds over "real" instruments, so I tend to listen to a lot of chiptune when it comes to melodic music. I've come across my fair share of "chiptune" artists who don't even know what a tracker is, much less what qualifies as "chip".

Here's my input: Chiptune, to me, feels wrong if it isn't attached to some sort of authenticity. I actually want to burn these people alive; the kind of people who claim they make chiptune, but just use FL Studio and a horrid "8-BIT SOUNDS" VST. Or even worse, GXSCC. That doesn't even require any talent whatsoever. (And I used to be one of those people who used that and made those videos, so I know!)

Chiptune's always been linked to trackers, actual CHIPS (hence the name), and often the demoscene. I feel that if you aren't using some sort of authentic thing, such as a legitimate chip or even sounds sampled from that chip, it isn't chip. Squarewaves alone aren't what make chiptune what it is. And like I said, many of these "chiptune" artists don't even know what a tracker is, or any of the chips by name.

It makes me saddened to see chiptune be interpreted by the public as simple bleep-bloop music with no history, no soul, and no proficiency. And for the people saying that "ohh you should just enjoy it for what it is, music is music", no. If you're trying to imitate an easily accessible style of music, at least use the correct things to make that music -- it's what the makes that type of music what it is. If you want to make music, make music, but don't try to enter a genre just because you can, or just for the appeal to the demographic of mostly teenage kids who think they're cool and cleverly retro for listening to chiptune. I bet those guys collect retro games because it's COOL too.

I mean, that's at least my view on this thing. I guess.
 
 
42150
Level 26 Mixist
Xaser
 
 
 
post #42150 :: 2014.04.30 9:11am
  
  raphaelgoulart and goluigi liēkd this
On that topic, what would be your thoughts on tracks like these? :
http://battleofthebits.com/arena/Entry/voyage+of+the+wildship/11997/
http://battleofthebits.com/arena/Entry/stay+home+and+eat+all+the+friggin+chips+kip.it/13319/

The intent I had for both was "chippy but not really" (well... less "intended" on the OHC entry since it was more like "AAAAAAAA TRACK NOW THINK LATER" and that's what the bitpack provided happened to have in it :P ), but I'm not trying to pass it off as anything "authentic" nor would I use the label "chip" alone to describe it (although I do kinda want to use "chiptrance" for wildship since it sounds like an awesome genre label -- I suppose this is too suggestive of proper-chip though?). Been thinking of doing a whole EP/LP/Something in this style, really, since it tickles my own fancy, but it's been hard to gauge how people feel about that sort of style-mixing.

I'm probably gonna do the album anyway, for the record, so I'm mostly posting for curiosity's sake. Also, the linked songs are tracker modules, if that makes it any less grievous a sin. :P

[Apologies for the plug of sorts, just figure it's relevant and I'm wanting to gather some opinions on the topic; might be worth moving any specifics of the discussion into the song comments, perhaps?]
 
 
42192
Level 15 Chipist
marcb0t
 
 
post #42192 :: 2014.05.01 2:39pm
  
  raphaelgoulart liēkd this
Greetings Baron,

My apologies. The way I phrased it is confusing. I understand that the 2A03 is an 8-bit sound chip (as far as I know.) In fact, I doubt you could send 7-bit PCM data through the $4010 register if it were any lower in bit depth. What I was saying about NES is that the 8 bit chip will process individual sounds in 4-bit chunks... or at least the triangle wave for sure. The step sequencing for the triangle wave is a 5 bit process on top of that. This is all overly technical and meaningless... unless of course you're a programmer or want to sound smart.

I was just making the point that people go around saying 8 bit this or 16 bit that without even really knowing what they're saying, because there are all kinds of varying chunks of bit depths and processes going on within any given processor.

Now, 7 bit PCM on the NES is a cool parlor trick, but certainly not amiable for actual in-game audio... perhaps a title screen, but it would really use up a lot of the 6502's resources even!

Fun topic!
 
 

LOGIN or REGISTER to add your own comments!