I'm going to move the submission page to the main OHB page. The entry period countdown will not refresh the page; instead it will start to approximate how many points from your final score you are losing due to tardiness. I'm thinking -1 per minute.

You are losing ≈ -_Σ2.3453

&#x2248 <-- note to self html special char

-1 per minute?

Not much of a deal since even nubs are taken away if you haeit a comment.

It could easily break a win if you were a couple minutes late!

Does this mean the late penalties are properly implemented now too? (Or were they there before and I never noticed?)

I haven't looked. Lateness might be stored. I'm pretty sure it is not implemented. I created this thread just so I wouldn't forget.

Also, what should the maximum lateness grace period be?

I'm thinking 30min. This is also potentially concerning major battles in the future. Should negative scores be allowed or should it bottom out at 0.000?

i wish it was like -0.5 per minute but then again, i'm notorious for submitting late.

I think it would be funny to see entries with a negative score.

also what if you submit an entry on time and then you decide to resubmit late, would that also penalize you other than losing the 5 bonus points?

Well, there's an absolute limit of 35 minutes built in, isn't there? Probably you can just clamp at 0 so that dweebs aren't encouraged to see how negative they can go.

I think some sort of quadratic function would make sense here (if you submit one minute late, no big deal, but ten minutes is ridiculous), but maybe that's too conceptually complicated.

yeah i like jangler's idea more even though it might be harder to implement, normally one minute late submits are from entries taking too long to upload or you just missed the cutoff. like for example you'd only lose like 0.2 for submitting a minute late but you would lose like 12 for submitting 10 minutes late.

There's no need to reduce points by more than 1 minute. ;( 10 points removed from a score will kick a first place entry out of the medal zone anyway.

Well, when the rule is actually enforced people will start uploading ahead of time like they should. The softer this rule is the more late entries we will continue to have.

well either way, i still like jangler's exponential idea better, people submit 1-2 min late entries occasionally and sometimes its just because crappy internet+larger filesize (it takes me about one minute to upload an mp3 here) and those very slightly late entries shouldn't be penalized as much as a 10 minute late entry just because of the time it took to upload.

the exponential thing will still discourage late entries because the penalty will increase drastically once it's been more than like 4 minutes anyway so i don't see what's wrong with it.

All late entries result in redownloaded bitpacks, inconvenient vote-clearing refreshes, and other unpleasant things. This is why I think it's better not to soften the blow for people that are "a little bit" late. It's very easy to avoid the late penalty by uploading a little bit earlier than you're used to now where there's (practically) no penalty.

also some people already downvote entries if they're too late anyway (i.e. Jangler) so i dont see any need to do anything at the moment at least. if this does get implemented, i do like jangler's idea more than a straight -1 per minute.

im always late but not as late as mootbooxle

i dunno how dat guy ever wins one hour compos

ROOF

I'm not worried about the implementation of the quadratic penalty function; I'm worried about n00bs being able to understand it. There are already several points about BotB that we often have to re-explain to new dudes in IRC, and I wouldn't want to add to that.

@Slimeball: I could have lost ten points and still come in first in this case -- http://battleofthebits.com/arena/OHC/1202/ -- and there appear to be 22 other instances of a first-place entry being more than ten points ahead of the next contender.

EDIT: and, because statistics are fun, there are over 200 cases in which 10 points wouldn't be enough to kick a first-place entry out of the medal zone (in compos with 4 or more entries).

In that case, your art was so vastly superior over the others that it still deserved the merit of a first place despite being 10 minutes over time, if it would have been submitted that late. ;3

I'm tempted to just say incur a fairly hefty flat penalty for all late entries [say, 6 points], whether 1 or 10 minutes late, but I know some people will see that as unreasonable.

The quadratic idea seems most reasonable.
Just explain to the n00bs, submitting late is bad and will screw up your chances of winning. Simple.


ahhh, BotB growing pains ;P

My heart goes out to those who spend so much time working on their song, being so concentrated on it, that they forget about the deadline. A 10 points punishment is more than enough. A 100 points punishment is downright excessive. ;(

0.25x^2+.75x?
x being minutes late, of course.

Just thought I'd propose an equation while we're on the subject.

Let's keep it simple instead!

0.1x^2

¹/₂ x^3/2

That would mean a 15,811388300841896659994467722164 point reduction if the entry were 10 minutes late.

The best proposal apart from mine!

While I'd like to side with rainwarrior and null1024 with hard ass rules, I feel Flaminglog's algorithm is best. The first two minutes are not so bad, but by 5 minutes late it costs you 10 points, and at 10 minutes 32.5! Ten minutes will be the maximum grace period for any battle. Also, once sluts happen the entry period is permanently closed even if it's under 10 minutes.

i'd like to see Extreme Penalties for people who submit after voters have already downloaded the votepack or saevd their votes -- late submission isn't such a big deal in itself, but if people have already voted or downloaded the votepack, it can be pretty annoying (and even affect the outcome of the voting)

that said, i usually submit about twenty minutes early. do what you like to late voters! :D

this is gonna force me to start making shorter songs. :P

Rules should probably also be enforced for late submissions to major battles.

How about -100 Playa points?? ehehehhehee

Yeah, that's the procrasti-tax.

I have plans to secede from the Procrasti Nation.

...when I get around to it.

Just to remind everyone, the lowest score possible is 5.000. I'm not for negative scores; I think it would be fancy if we utilized the gap between 5. and 0. instead, unless there's something even fancier we could use that for.

> i'd like to see Extreme Penalties for people who submit after voters have already downloaded the votepack

Penalizing late BotBrs after a single person downloads the votepack doesn't seem like the way to do it. In theory could be exploited (not the right word, but whatever, I can't think)... especially for those who are uploading with a slow Internet connection and/or after barely/almost making the deadline.

How about -0.1 or -0.05 per votepack donload after entry time expires?

those seem about right!

I looked to see if any late submission mechanics were already in play and there is one! For every minute the submission is late you lose two points from the end OHB bonus with a minimum of two. The end OHB bonus is split between OHCist points and the relative point type to the OHB's format.

This has no affect on your final score. There are about 800 'late' entries starting from November 2009. I will be playing around with this on Sunday! :P/

Did you play around with the lates system yet? I've noticed a decrease in bonus points received today for entries that were on time. I recieved 8 mixist and OHCist points for an entry that placed 4th/10, but in the past the rewards have been a lot more generous. Is this intentional?

And to avoid bumping a seperate thread, I'll post the following here: I believe the new OHB hosting rules require 11 entries of a particular format, not 10 as stated. Did you use ">" instead of ">="? Or maybe this is intentional too??