coming from an obviously self-obsorbed person, i think after a certain level botbr's should have the option to not self-favorite their tracks.

no matter how self-absorbed a person can be they may also attempt at humility. we should be given that chance... please.

edit: i do think that we should pay for this feature in b00ns to find reason to earn more. this privilege should be earned and not be given for free. i think a self-absorbed botbr that does not log out before listening to their tracks should be provided an option to subscribe monthly for 149.99B to un-favorite and non self-favorite their own tracks.

let's call it the "anti-introvert package".

Again, this concept is tied to a BotBr owning a Humility Helmet which would keep auto-favoriting disabled for a BotBr's tracks. Alas, items are yet to be implemented. Also, I'm open to the concept of editing your favorites which would also cost boons.

or an item that allows you to unfav stuff

people favourite their own tracks?

edit: what the... somehow I have favourited four of my own tracks. When did I do this?

entries are auto-favorited if they are listened to multiple times.

why does that even happen

That is a good question, jrlepage. What was the initial objective for the auto-favoriting thing? Just to point out people who seem to be fans of their own work?
As I understand it, only your own tracks are affected in this way. It would make a lot more sense if it worked across the board - if you cared enough to listen to [user]'s track a whole bunch of times, that must mean you like it - it would make sense for it to be automatically added to your favorites.
This could potentially give a clearer picture of who's digging what.

That is how it works. at least according to puke7!

You are absolutely right, Strobe. I just tried it by listening to a track by someone else that was not in my favourites about 5 times in a row. When I refreshed the page, I did appear in the list of people who favorited it.

I didn't know that until you told me! I understand everything now. The auto-favorite thing is not a bad thing after all! I always hated it because I didn't realise that it worked on any track.

Having said that, I wholeheartedly agree that there needs to be some kinda way to prevent the auto-fav from happening to your own tracks.

I support auto-fav!

I also support auto-fav!

Would be nice if we got the merchant system up and working so he could sell us items.

Hello Puke? Can you hear me? I'm calling from my brand new iTem 5

I'm in favour of a way to not self-favourite. If you want to self-favourite it's fine with me, I'd just rather everyone had the option not to (in exchange for some boons as b00daw suggested).

Actually now that I know how it works, I'm totally cool with it.

don't be ashamed, everyone does it!

you know the saying, "[rigidly enforced and mandatory] honesty is the best policy!"

i choose autofav and no opt-out


(edit::: maybe you could make an option to listen to songs backwards which reduced your play count by one)

I was going to make another thread about something sort of related, but it fits into this,

It would be nice if we had the option to at least download our own things without an auto-fav penalty. BotB contains about 75% or so of the music I've written the past two years and I have a nasty habit of deleting stuff once I'm done with it. BotB is kind of like my own personal archive, it'd be great to access stuff without auto faving it and going through all the motions of, "omg omg people must think i'm such a self absorbed AWHOLEEE : ((("

Like recently, I had a chat with my piano teach at the new school and discovered we have a lot of similar tastes in music. I mentioned that I do electronic stuff outside of college piano junk and he was interested to hear some of my stuff. Alas, I have nothing on my hd and am about to download a number of things, needlessly fretting over the silly auto favs.

It's a trivial annoyance, but I think it'd set a nice tone if the layout of the site acknowledged each user's potential desire to access their personal pages as archives without being penalized for it.

Why do you consider it a penalty to be told that you like your own music?

prob cos i'm wrong, lol

Is it more self absorbed to like your own music, or to like your own music and want to hide that fact from others?

I dunno, I don't understand the negative connotation to this at all. Music you make yourself is custom made for you! Why shouldn't you like it?

I'd be more concerned about the person who makes a lot of music and puts it up here, but doesn't think it's worth listening to.

just making a big scene arencha?

The following comment is sincere, please don't take it as sarcasm, but honestly find it really interesting how much people let their BotB listening methods be dictated by their desire not to auto-favourite. Why not live free and let it be what it is?

just go wit da flow you donk

im on rainwarriors side

pretending you don't like your own music is pathetic as heck

only allowing ELITES to pretend they don't like their own music is even worse

i mean i can see the point in selling worthless status-symbol items to rich people as a mechanic on botb ~ it makes it lifelike and all that

but allso it's really dumb

not the best way to debate something, lol

i am all for worthless status symbols for the botb wealthy

lol

hahaha I love you guys so much. Reading this thread made me smile a lot. It says a lot that it doesn't say in words.
I personally like my music a lot for the reason that rainwarrior said: it's the music of my mind and soul! Why wouldn't I like it? it's an expression of who I am! I happen to like that person, so I like the musical expressions of him. Perhaps people who don't like their own music are dissatisfied with their current state of being. That's not to say self-loathing, just a burning desire to improve or an ideal that has not yet been manifested (or cannot be).

Carl Jung for president 2016


oh yeah also:
auto-fav is kinda dumb and we should get rid of it

or we should keep it cuz it's fun to talk about

chill bro, chill

I think autofavorite personal tracks undermines the favorite system, at least for me. I tend to listen to my tracks more because I make music for me first, others later. Listening to one of my own songs a bunch of times is normal and just ensures that my favorites list is just about a superset of my entry list, whereas if I listen to someone else's song a bunch, I probably really like it.

that's my 0.02c [yes, $0.0002 :DDD]

it's ok if you want to hide it (i don't hate you 4 it) ~ but recognise that its irrational (we are all irrational in different ways) and that people not wanting the workings of a large community website to be changed to indulge your specific neuroses IS NOT (is not) (isn't) the same as a personal attack on you

w.r.t. some kind of stigma attached to pride, i don't see it myself. personally i think people get more abuse for "defeatistcore" (the exact opposite) than for pride. plenty of users here are proud of their music (eg mootbooxle clearly)

and my stance on the whole lot:
- if there's going to be a function that lists all the songs you've listened to more than five times, it should list all the songs you've listened to more than five songs. this seems like common sense to me.

- "elite members" shouldn't be able to pay to be dishonest. this is just an ethical thing i guess.

- if you want to get rid of auto-fav completely (rather than just for your own tracks) then w/e. but i like the idea of having some kind of externally-imposed sincerity. some people like to Cultivate An Image which generally involves telling little lies about themselves over and over . DIAGNOSTICS: 1) are you someone who selectively turns the lastfm scrobbler on/off?

sorry i rambled a bit. but basically no just because i think your idea is bad and your motivation for the idea is irrational doesn't mean i have any kind of negative feelings for you Yourself and that applies to all of us at botb the most loving community on earth

As it stands, the auto-favourite kind of makes favourite useless as a bookkeeping feature. i.e. my favs page on my profile is 30% a list of my own tracks (pretty much a list of all my tracks). However, I am willing to give up the idea that it should be a good record. This is not a YouTube favourites folder. This is not a Facebook like. This is "hey, user X thought your thing was interesting enough to check out 5 times", which is kind of neat as its own thing.

It's a little bit more fun than having only manual faves, for two reasons. 1. it gets people who would normally ignore the feature to use it anyway. 2. people accidentally auto favourite things they find interesting, even if they didn't like it. I actually think this is fun that it's an indicator of interest, not just of how much you like something.

The feature we have that is equivalent to a Facebook like is to leave a comment with a nice message. We don't have a feature that is like a YouTube favourites list.

I don't remember anybody ever being made fun of on #BotB or the website for liking their own stuff, but a lot of people do seem to have anxiety about it, which I really don't understand. If you spent an hour making a 2 minute track then you already listened to it 30 times before you submitted it. Why would it matter that there is an indicator that you've continued to think about it and listen to it?

All this said, I don't think self-faves are particularly useful in any particular way, but I actually kind of like the generality of it applying to your own stuff, the same as any. For me this actually makes it more fun, but I can see that it doesn't for others.

A checkbox to hide self-likes on faves pages would be useful though-- it'd let me look at a much nicer list of entries I probably like, and it'd probably be good to have the option to look at other peoples' faves pages the same way. (Perhaps it could be a global option that will apply to all faves pages you look at until you toggle it?)

Wow! What a debate!

In the first place, gyms, instead of donloading your tracks to share with your piano teacher, why didn't you simply give them the URL to your profile and tell them to click the "listen" tab/button?

Again, favorites is a long-term WIP. When BotB is ready to let you manage your favorites, the current favorite data will probably be relabeled 'listen history". Yes, donloads count as a play towards favoriting an entry.

I'm feeling a little irky about some of the things being said in this thread.

"pathetic as heck"
"it's really dumb"
"can the victim stuff"
"i don't think other botbrs are obligated to agree with all yr personal neuroses for the sake of it"
"some people like to Cultivate An Image which generally involves telling little lies about themselves over and over"

etc.

These are words you should save for meanies like me and goluigi. gyms is a nice froggy who never means any harm and never did you any harm. Have a heart. ;(

just chill out man, lol

I noticed that after listening to a song 5 or more times, it automatically gets into my favorites (most of you probably know that already though). It took me a couple weeks to notice though. It's annoying because even my own songs get into my favorites. I just don't want to come around as "overconfident" or anything like that, and I'm sure other people feel the same way. Not to mention that I only started making my own songs this year, and I'm still developing, that's also a big reason as to why I don't want to come around as "cocky" or "overconfident". Yes I know I can download songs and listen to them outside of battleofhtebits.org, but I'm not always on my laptop, and sometimes I want to listen to some of the songs here when I'm on another computer. But then again, downloading a song does automatically put into your favorites. There are alternate options though, such as using some audio recording software. But depending on how many times you try to record the song it might be an auto-favorite as well, so that also has a downside.
Conclusion: I think songs shouldn't be in one's favorites based on how many times they listen to it, or if they download it or not. I think we should be able to favorite songs at our own will, and not let the task of downloading or listening to the songs effect the favorites.

I actually have to agree with most that has been said here. But I think there is a problem within this discussion and I will get to that later.

I agree with rainwarrior in that the favourite list on this page is different from a favourite list on say Youtube. And I agree that it therefore is kind of useless, because it is not something like a playlist where you manually add tracks, but a mixture of manually and automatically added tracks. Some tracks will get automatically added and later will raise the question why they are on the list.
So yes, I think rainwarrior's proposal to add a button that will sort out your own tracks from the list view would be helpful. (Only from the view! I'm not talking about deleting songs from the list!)
But maybe adding a real playlist feature would be more helpful. One could manually manage playlist, make them publicly available or privately or whatever. I think this would be a great addition to the site.
Also there would be no reason why one shouldn't be able to delete tracks from a playlist.
I understand that many of you view the favourite list as a form of statistics and that you dislike the idea of people manipulating these statistics.

At the same time I have to agree with gyms! I don't think it is nice to see my own songs on my favourite list. This has nothing to do with my personal feelings about my songs. mootbooxle really nailed that part!
If you don't like what you've made, maybe you're just not happy with your current skill/situation and want to improve. Nothing bad in that and also when you feel like you achieved something for yourself, you are certaintly allowed to like your song and to be proud. And you can listen to it all you like. Both has happened to me. I have mostly scored last place in OHCs and I have mostly received scores of less than 20, but I still like many of the songs I have uploaded here. For different reasons. Some I feel are accomplishments, some are jokes and I like that Botb has a place for both!

But I think there is a discripancy here:
Many Botbrs seem to think of the favourite list as a means of statistics!
In other words the favourite list does not mean "I like this", but more something along the lines of "I listened to this for at least 5 times". This could have any reason at all! This is important! It could be because your browser farted and reloaded the player page countless times. It could be because you wanted to show songs to someone and were logged in at that moment. Any reason!

However, people bring up this argument:
"Do you not like your songs? Why do you want to take them off the list? Why would you think your songs are horrible? What is your problem?"

You see what I mean? There seems to be a variety of understandings of the favourite list.
I don't want to blame anyone for that. I'm just saying there are arguments about various things in this thread and people are talking across purposes (is that the correct expression? I'm sorry if my English is causing more trouble than good)

So yes, I have to agree with gyms. I don't like it to see my own songs on my favourite list. I have actually stopped listening to my own songs on this site because of it! Now, don't come to me with your "neurotic behaviour" argument!
From what I understand (and I'm not a psychiatrist) a neurosis is a mental illness and behaviour that arises because of this neurosis is not related to a decision of an individual that suffers from that neurosis.
I decided not to listen to my own songs on Botb for more than one time (to check if they play correctly) because I think it looks stupid to have them on my favourite list. I understand that most people won't care, but I do, because first of all I would like to have a playlist feature, but I don't have it so I try to abuse the favourite list to work like one. Is this bad behaviour? Maybe, because I try to avoid the auto-fav system.
In other words: I don't listen to my songs on Botb, because I only want songs of other people on my favourite list, because I would like to have quick access to them to listen to them when I like to.(Because I think they are great and so and listen to them often) If I want to access or listen to my own songs I open my "Tracks" folder on my hard disk, so there is no problem for me :/
Since I have lost almost all the tracks I made last year, I perfectly understand if someone would like to use Botb as some kind of backup for tracks.
Secondly I actually worry that I will appear like some dick who thinks his songs are the greatest out there and has to fav every single one of them. Maybe you think this is not reasonable, because you know how auto-favs work, but something like this has happened to me before on the internet and I can tell you that it is not fun to have a lot of people question you about your dick behaviour that was never meant to be dick behaviour at all. At least it tought me what true friends are :/ (hint: true friends are not dicks about the mistakes you make and don't try to force into feeling guilty for things that are not your fault. True friends are not like in animes)

Maybe this has turned too emotional, but I felt like speaking up, because I think this discussion has gotten out of hand at points.
I want to stress again, that I'm not blaming anyone and that I think this is related to a misunderstanding, so I guess the best is to just not worry about it too much.
Also, I understand that you, puke, are always doing your best and that some things just take time and that there will always be problems that one could start complaining about. I think you are doing a great job and I love this site. I think I speak for everyone when I say that we don't mean to pressure you! We're just discussing ideas :)

think ive said what i need to say about the proposed feature itself. so let's get meta! ( \m/ )

clearly i've genuinely upset you gyms. i didn't mean to. the way i envisaged the debate going was

people: let's have this feature because <reasons>
people2: let's not have this feature becase <reasons> are bad reasons //OR// let's not have this feature because <reasons2>
... and then ... * bknox decides *

some clarification now ~
1) here's what pathetic means "causing or evoking pity, sympathetic sadness, sorrow, etc."

2) describing a thing that you do or a feature that you want as pathetic/dumb isn't the same as describing you as pathetic/dumb. you're neither pathetic nor dumb. i have lots of respect for you and also lots of respect for kfaraday and lots of respect for pretty much everyone who is in favour of the Humility Helmet

anyway more botb threads than just this one have demonstrated my inability to object to things without upsetting someone so i will bow out right now

see ya later

edit: forgot to use the word sorry --
sorry :( i AM sorry really

why so srs, lol

Grumskiz: I wish I could tag your posts as descriptioncore. Also I like that you like the English language enough to write the biggest posts in history with bleedmaster and KungFuFurby trailing behind you. Congratulations!

gyms: I guess people are kind of pissed off that such an awesome person as yourself could at the same time be such a self-loathing thin-skin. Actually, I get it, I really do. However, take the abuse as love. Once you figure out the intent, you will understand that some forms of negativity are meant to enhance the strength of loved ones. Like you, Slimeball. *meeeh mee meeeee oh don't hurt anyone's feelings meee mee meeeh oh in competition, love, and war everyone deserves a prize and the losers should be given certificates of effort and improvement meeee meh meeeeeeeeehh...* ;)

love you all. keep up the constructional warfare!

let my bands make the merchants dance as i buy my humility helmet and tons of other absurd trinkets with my boons. however, as soon as boons can turn to bitcoin, that will no longer be the case. :)

Well yeah, if there were certificates of effort and improvement people like B00daw might feel more motivated to submit their stuff to compos. ;)

yeah, i like i need more people to tag my work as "tincan". yes, please. eventually whenever people click "tincan" it will be all me and your alts.

grumskiz, great post. great long post. you made some very good points!
this is one of the best threads in BotB forum history, even despite all the strong words and tempers. in the end we're all still friends and no one ragequit so all's well that ends.

keep on tranglin'
-Larry Pat

wow

i missed a lot didn't i

I like my own music a lot

I like waffles a lot

I like toast a lot

i like pringles jalapeno stackable chips a lot and i think you should all buy a can of them.

i like you a lot :3c~~~~

i like eggs a lot

i like turtles

I personally have put a great deal of effort into playing songs a million times to create a favorites list that actually represents what my favorite songs are. The track with most of my plays is "Triskaidekaphobia" by Baron Knoxburry and remains my very favorite BotB song. They go in descending order of plays until you reach "Sin Brother" which is my first accidentally favorited song on the list. You could call it a top 20, the songs are in order of how much I like them from best to least-best. Check out my favorites for some amazing BotB history! :D

my most played is return of dj funkyman haha

i gave my mom my botb password and she listened to my one song over and over :((((

Am I too late to chime in :( :( :(

[watch for edits if: no]

I just wanna resonate rain's point of "Why would it matter that there is an indicator that you've continued to think about it and listen to it?"

I question why "the indicator letting other people see the behavior of what you already do" should be hidden. If one feels that it's a bad thing to let people see, then why not let that change your behavior such that you just stop listening >5 times?

It seems more like feeling bad for being caught than feeling bad for doing it.

define too late to chime in! what, xyz, do you think i'm too insecure to form an opinion to the contrary???

honestly, i think the feature that disables automatic chiming-in should have been implemented a long time ago, but it's not been a feature for so long that i've pretty much gotten used to not having it!

(i don't know who you're askin for permission from but you get the commandycan gold star to go right ahead with yer thoughts)

live and let live bro, jeez lol

ROOF ROOF
wanna hear some chimes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdWN59fEzIE

let's not discuss anything at length

hip hop don't stop

I'm being quoted out of context. I said "why would it matter" in a very specific comparison to the act of creating an OHC entry.

A lot of our behaviour on BotB is logged and on public display forever. That is actually something I like very much about BotB. If you play this game, you get logged, ranked, rated, and put on display. There is more at stake this way, and your actions are more meaningful.

There is perhaps some semantic dissonance about what "fav" means if it's really just a listen log, but nothing on this site is spelled correctly anyway, so this shouldn't be a bigger leap than anything else here.

I agree with ant1's sentiment that hiding your listen log would be dishonest. I might go as far as to say that doing whatever dance you do to avoid triggering the auto-fav is similarly dishonest.

Now, it's one thing to be logged without realizing you're being logged. As a noob I triggered auto-fav quite a bit without knowing. However, the complaints in this thread have don't seem to have been motivated by this at all-- we know what's going on. Most major websites log as much as they possibly can about what you do on them. The thing that makes BotB exceptional is that it puts more of it on public display. This is a good thing, though. It keeps us honest, and it keeps things fair, and by having everyone leave their tracks in the open we can have a much better sense of the community than if people were allowed to hide their presence.

:(

ok

fuck it

hey that's great kellogs won't fire me


::also i agree with your points::

Another way to put this is that BotB does not require that you disclose your race, religion, sex, sexuality, age, or politics in order to participate. What it does demand is that the things you do here become available to the community. All of the things, really. Any music you submit. Any votes you place. Anything you listen to. To be a participant you have to make your actions visible to others here, but they are only actions that are already relevant to this community (unless you volunteer other things).

It also demands permanence in all of these things, which is interesting. That seems to be the most troubling part of it for Gyms. Is this aspect of BotB keeping people out?

fine

Oh please, go on, my friend! Let's beat this dead horse some more. Just don't try to ride him. I like long conversations that are just long conversations about conversations being long conversations that long conversationalists like.

frog

Oh no, don't do that!

:(

Well, tbh, I think rainwarrior's question at the end there is quite valid. Not to single out gyms and not that I am willing to change the battle archive paradigm of saving everything, but I have wondered this myself over the years. You see, there are people who like to battle, there are people who don't, and then there are people that might not mind battling but don't want to risk making something shitty in an hour or spending more time to place badly, and having it permanently attached to their name. "established artists" (which I wouldn't mind having more of on BotB) are less likely to participate on BotB for a number of reasons: placing well doesn't do anything for you outside the BotB community, BotB won't help you find gigs, the average battle entry is only heard by 5-20 people, for some there's no challenge in placing well, etc....

...but that's kind of an entirely different topic kind of.

Let's just say that sometime in the future plays/views will be separate from favorites. Adjusting favorites will cost boons. Making a popular playlist will get you boons. Sorry. I've rather wished that this was done years ago already.

i wish i could skip through the nice happy fields of cutie cute land with interrobang pie, wing, and slimeball :(

ughyesno, let's keep this train going. don't stop!

reduced to handing out balloons, i can't believe this.

don't worry, it'll be okay. this was my decision and i'm prepared to live with it. really, it's not so bad tho. especially when i have someone like slimeball who supports me 100%. these are tough times, but love and friendship shine lights so bright on the darkest night.

slimbol is really ur hero ^o^

"there are people that might not mind battling but don't want to risk making something shitty in an hour or spending more time to place badly, and having it permanently attached to their name"

could make a new name

general blobular is actually Madonna

Jenny16 is virt

haha jenny16 is virt

i love how quickly some people completely turn to insult their friends. like fuck, you don't have to agree with what i say or do but wouldn't a friendly history between two people at least warrant a bit more consideration towards trying to understand someone before going off the hinge with insults? maybe i'm just naive and take my online relationships with people too srsly. fucking disappointing, honestly.

edit: btw, i feel terrible. this is all quite odd, what's even going on right now?

also, the strikethroughs were a response to mootbooxle having a great misunderstood laugh at my response to rainwarrior's question. it was a contextual response made for him.

That's it, I'm outta here.

honestly i think calling someone a shithead is less egregious than, say, taking part in a heated debate with people and then editing all your posts to make it look like you had no part in it / and or were playing the role of peacemaker. i see that one of your less involved/mild-mannered posts managed to somehow remain unscathed by your little joke to mootbooxle.

read the thread now - it's clearly an unfair representation of what actually was said.

given the topic of the thread in general maybe it was an appropriate place for you to demonstrate your willingness to erase from history anything you've done that you later find embarrassing

no?

Closed due to dramacore.

I someone want's to continue a discussion on a single topic then make a new thread. This thread has too many butt hurts and topics.