No point in discussing this any further. Bye.

the difference is: allgear is mp3, which is a general playback format for audio files. and visuall is png/jpg, which is a general file format to view images.

exceptions like the osctet battle is ... an exception. i feel like an "allmap" format wld need a general file format that can be defaulted to. since that doesnt exist, i dont think this is a good idea

Then default the file format to all of the already existing mappist formats (wad, ips, qst) if a general file format doesn't exists. And any unofficial formats would have to be specified in the bitpack and battle title, much like the osctet battles were.

feels like this goes against the idea of botb formats

"just take all existing formats and put them into one" defeats the purpose of them being unique formats imo

So, what you're saying is that vgm being an acceptable file type in many formats defeats the purpose of it being an unique format.

As much as I would probably enjoy the hell out of an allmap format, I find it hard to properly define how it would stand on BotB.

The allgear and visuall formats are easily defined and consumed - allgear is an audio work that you can listen to, and visuall is a visual/graphical work that you can look at. Also, allgear is either mp3 or can be represented in mp3 form, as is visuall with jpg/gif/png. Map formats don't really fit the same generalist format framework. Sure, you could maybe boil it down to "some sort of work you can play/interact in", but it feels too vague and abstract, and also there isn't really a good canonical representation for a map. The closest thing to it is screenshots or gameplay videos, but those can't really fully convey the proper experience of playing the map.

Another way I'd frame it is that while there are many ways you can create an allgear entry, they all boil down to something you listen to. Or even in the case of vgm, there are many ways to create a .vgm but they all follow a well defined spec. The argument for different map types boiling down to something you load into a game/engine and play can be made, but I find it to be a stretch. There's also a lot less common ground across different map/game types.

It's true that gameplay videos can't really fully convey the proper experience of playing the map. Yet it turns out renders have been used over and over for voting and streaming purposes, so...

Most of how you expressed your thoughts make it seems like you're against mappist formats by default. I know this isn't true, but that's what it feels like.

I agree that there's less common ground across different map/game types, though.

Okay! It's just that this whole idea suddenly made sense to me, since there have been so many mappist format requests lately. One who wanted to host a Mega Man Maker battle could just be told "btw, you could use this format for that". But if the lack of a default file type halts that, then waiting on the queue it is, I suppose.

Re #211282
no thats not what im saying

wow I haven't touched Mega Man Maker since it was new

when was that? 2015?

>>>But if the lack of a default file type halts that, then waiting on the queue it is, I suppose.

i do want to be clear there is no "queue" of formats-to-be... the "oops all new formats" battle was a special occasion where i assembled a big list of the outstanding requests and made real the most viable ones in one exciting splash; but i have no intention of doing that again, and there's no specific time where new formats might or might not get added. (nor am i specifically in charge of that btw.) i simply saw it as a good opportunity to do something fresh while addressing the wealth of solid requests that had been made but fell by the wayside over my time here in botb.

if there's something you want to see, make some noise about it, and get others to make noise about it. my major battle idea aside, there should be some impetus and interest behind adding something new.

Yeah, I knew there won't be Oops II.

You mentioned it on Discord.

So, by "queue", I meant "maybe at some point".

okay! no worries, just wanted to make that clear : )

I'm much in favor of specific map formats being added, I just don't think having a catch-all map format works well compared to other classes of formats because of how maps are tied to specific games/engines. For example, how would an allmap major work? The format wouldn't really serve any purpose outside of what the original post suggests: to trial out map formats.

"I just don't think having a catch-all map format works well compared to other classes of formats because of how maps are tied to specific games/engines."

You got this point across in your previous post just fine and I even agreed to it.

"how would an allmap major work?"

Do you see chipbattle and mixbattle art formats in XHBs?

Not every format works for every context.

"The format wouldn't really serve any purpose outside of what the original post suggests: to trial out map formats."

And that would be ok? I think we should let go of the notion that the format must be associated with a specific file type so that we can focus on it having a special purpose that benefits people who use it.

I'm not installing 12 more emulators just so I can play allmap entries. I already use:

bsnes
zandronum
duckstaion
mGBA
slippi (dolphin)
PCSX2
Project64
fightcade2
BGB

point being, an allmap format would limit voting to people with advanced hardware and is completely unrealistic. compare that to allgear .mp3 and the visual .png

One person's entry would be .ips. Another's would be a WAD. So on and so forth. No one would be voting.

(I just played Phoenix Wright 2 days ago so sorry if I'm coming off as combative)

Yeah #211357 is about what I was getting at. I acknowledge there already is special casing with the battle art formats being major-only as well as some other non-generally-hostable/"retired" formats, but whereas major-only makes sense, XHB-only seems odd to me.

Anyway, to steer the discussion in a potentially more constructive direction, what about having unofficial map battles to gauge interest? Similar to how s3xmoditmania and GCT were side events that were posted to the BotB bulletins, we can have an unofficial map mania thread going on where we designate a few days to run some mini-battles. Since I personally am interested in seeing Quake BSP format becoming a thing, I might kick off a thread for that if enough BotBrs show interest! (barring life or other things getting in the way of course)

So glad we're finally getting a thread for this legendary album. I think Breed is my favorite track but there are so many great picks

nevermind?
what? when? where? why? whats the topic?

yes it rly is a great practice to erase the thread topic and it's first post. this rly helps everyone.

it forever remains a mystery

The Burning of the Library of Alexandria 2.0

discovering ancient ruins of a library and there is only a stone left with the following words engraved on it, barely readable:



Ņ̵̢̳̲̪̝͕̤̘͌̔o̵͖͐̾̆̅̀͆͑̔̏͑̐͊̾ ̵̛͉͙̼͍̞̦̟͓̽̃̊͑̓́̉́̊̇͆͝p̸̯͎̖͚̀͒̐̆͌̽̿̈́̾ö̴̯̟̞̬̜͖̮̫̳́̃̎͑̂̔̋͐͑͆́̇̈́̚i̶̡͕̥̹̥̜̤̜͓̯̠̙͌̿̓n̵̟̭͇̝͔̒ẗ̸̼̘̭̯̝̳̟͉̳̦̪́̏̓͜ ̸͙̜̻̰͗́̑i̷̡̹̣̠͎͇̬͚͔̩̪̾̈́̌̓̐̃̈́̄̋́̌̚͝͝ņ̷̳̮̝̗͙̹̪̟̉ ̵̛̼̺͗̿̍̌́̾̂̈́̾̓̓͋͗ḑ̴̡̡̡͉̲̹̳̠͈̙̘̎i̶̢̨̨̺̘͔͕̬͎̠̪͌̍̏́̑͛̾̋̾͌͜ͅs̴̡̺̤̤͕̠̺̙̝̻͙͉̜̹͊̅̀͜c̸̢̺̹̝̯͉͋̀u̶̢̨̡̮̠͖͓̤͓̟̬̜̖̲͆̔͒̓̈̆̽̐͠s̶̢̥̣͖̰͇̠̟̙̤̾͗̌s̷̤̲̤̝͕̫͔̟̋̒͆͛̄͆̕̚͜͝ḯ̸̥̊͋̇͂̉́̚͝ņ̷̮̝̫͖̬͚̯̹͉̦̏́̾̆́̅̓͌̽̿͜͝g̶͖̦͖̣̬̒̌̓̒̊̅͑͐̐͜͠ ̴̧͓̟̞͖̰̰̠̭̑̑̍̌̂̀̎͐̈́̎̇̔͛͊͝t̷̲̄̏̔͂͛h̴̨̻̮̲̱̰̱͙͇͕̻̳̉̿̊̈́͜į̵̰̞̫̞͕̤͇͚̰̗̤̣̬̰̑̚ş̸̠̯͕̼͖̪̙̥̪̊̍̏̿̇͊́͊͂̽̚̚͝ ̶̺̲́͛ą̸̯̭̻̤̬͓̖͖͂̾̂́̀͑̄̿̉̎̐͝n̸̥̫͈̭̩̣̖̮͒ẙ̸̨͕̬̠̦̱̻͙̓ ̸̧̨̘͕̙̝͔̯̻́̀́̋͝ḟ̸͎̹̪̰̖͉̯̙͙̀̐̅͘u̸̬͇̦̯̙̇̃͝ͅr̶͍̀̇͋́̌͋̐̊̆͒̔̾t̶̡̢̰͕̤͎̀̅́̉͑̍̈h̸̺̋̈́e̸͈͍̗͈̙̗͗̈́́̎̌̄̓̔̃͐̃̂̚͝͝ȑ̷̛̳̗̹̩̘̘̉.̸̢̛̛̭͖̳̺̺̜̪̜̭̤̞̝̥̐͐̊̓́̀͝ ̵̧̤̦̫̠̰͓̮̜͎͍̋̓̄̈́͊͆̉͆̚̚͝͝B̸̡͔̟̮͇̪̩͓͉̱͍͎̱̓̉͑̎͜͠y̶̭͍̑́́͂͆̌̔̎͆̈́͘͜͝ȩ̶̨̯̼͙̤̮̀̈́̋̊͗́̂̓̓̏̒̕͝͝.̵̟̜̻͔̰͙̾͗̐̈́͊͋̈͝ͅ

the truth remains a shadow

Figuring out the original topic from a wall of replies is an interesting perspective.