A listen party on Twitch

will happen just before public release! You can also keep an eye out on the main page, for it should be being imbedded.

Official date: Saturday December 26th at 3PM EST/8PM GMT!

Featuring, in alphabetical order, Aji, Biruhan, BlueNocturne, CastleNes, Jakerson, kgb525, ko0x, OminPigeonMaster, MandraSigma, Michael Frank, mirageofher, mk7, MrMinisterMaster, petet, Radnyx, Vav, Viravax and Zenkusa! Visuals by CastleNes & sean. Final mastering by pumpuli! Part of the polish team was kgb525 & BlueNocturne! Featuring a read-along short story by Multi!

Follow us on bandcamp to get the big ol' album for yourself! It'll be Free"Pay What You Want"! (at least as long as Bandcamp will permit it) https://ultimatehum.bandcamp.com

I know bandcamp somehow limits free downloads, but idk, we'll see lol

I am excite

am very

you get 200 free downloads per month on bandcamp, i dont think this will be a problem lol

wasnt mk7 on the list as well, why was he kicked out ? o:

Yay!

Oh, good.

A few people just kind of fell off the radar, so I had to consider them out. We can't even get so much as stems for the mastering, it's not even a matter of choice at this point.

is there a reason this is on its own bandcamp account and not the BotB one, if its purpose is to showcase the musicians of BotB and promote this community? (just reading the account description here)

It's simply to reward the individual artists who made the music, so it is still very much about BotB, but about supporting the individuals of BotB as well. I don't exactly expect it to immediately be a big earner, but it could eventually come to be at least somewhat of a reward.

See this for full details (and math) on how money is split: https://battleofthebits.com/academy/GroupThread/24695/
I am also making a website, on which every hummer will also be able to view their cut, and basically notify me that they wish to take it out (that will come at a later date)

The added bonus is we get extra control over the background/page design without it taking over BotB's

it is certainly a noble goal to want the hum participants to receive compensation for their work! (although i do think people were on board for this even if it were free, i haven't talked to everyone involved so i can't say that's true for everyone.) but this system is, at best, convoluted as hell, and at worst, kinda shifty.

i have a hard time imagining a world where this album sells enough copies to make this system worth it; it would make more sense if you were expecting to sell a thousand copies or something, but probably you will sell like 10-20. the majority will download for free, many buyers will pay a nominal amount ($1-$3) and fewer still will drop $5-$10 on it, at least based on my own experiences having albums PWYW on bandcamp.

so taking the optimistic side of that estimation, if 20 people buy the hum album at $5 apiece, you have $100 to split eighteen ways (disregarding the 'multiple tracks = bigger cut 4 u' thing for this) plus the other percentage allocations you outlined. if 80% is going to the musicians, that's $80 eighteen ways. that's like, a Starbucks(R) Frappucino(TM) for your troubles.

again, i don't want to speak on behalf of everyone on the album, because there might be some people who do really want to see some kind of monetary return for this and i don't want to shoot them in the foot, but it is going to take a very large number of sales to make this contrived system "worth it". and... unless you somehow get very, VERY lucky, you will not get that volume of sales. i mean no offense when i say this, but you are just a person. you aren't a promoter, nor do you have connections or reach; some of the people on this album are successful musicians, and that helps i'm sure (unsure to what degree), but the vast majority of people will not know or care about this album, no matter how amazing the music is. just because you put music in a space on the internet does not mean anyone is going to give a damn (unfortunately).

which, incidentally, you're going to be more likely to get traffic flowing towards the hum album if it's on BotB's bandcamp, which is already a known entity that people are subscribed to and aware of, rather than your brand new account. plus, like, doesn't it.. make sense..? for this album, by BotB musicians, to be on the BotB bandcamp? like, logically? if your goal really is what you wrote in the ultimate hum bandcamp description, "[to showcase] the music genius of Battle of the Bits community" + "to promote Battle of the Bits as the ultimate chiptunes [sic] community", is the official bandcamp not clearly the best place for this?

what makes this look shifty at worst is that it comes off like you are trying to promote yourself too, or to have a greater hand in this project than you need to have. you mention yourself in the bandcamp description and you inexplicably set up a patreon account quite early on in the hum's life cycle. i hope that these things aren't actually intended to be self-serving but from the outside, they do really look sus. (personally, i was not on board with this project once money became involved; it overcomplicates things for very very little gain, and given your wild moneystuffs outline, that fear of mine was correct)

this, combined with your heavy-handed involvement in the later stages of the music post-4HBs, gives me the impression that you want to entrench yourself deeper in both the project and community, seemingly to the detriment of many involved parties, some of whom have left the project out of frustration towards this. i suspect the polish phase would've been a much smoother process if you had just put all the musicians themselves in a room and let them figure out how to build cohesion, rather than being told what to do like employees; they're the ones who know how to do this best, after all. it avoids resentment, is more efficient, and strengthens relationships among everyone else. an organizer does not need to take an active role in those things... speaking as someone who has both organized and been a part of group music projects before. the musicians will always know best, and if you think that you do instead, then you are going to face a LOT of pushback. some of the things i've seen you request from folks before are things that i wouldn't even dream of asking another fellow musician to do, and coming from someone who isn't a musician makes it ten times worse.

i hope that i am wrong about that stuff, but considering how steadfastly and stubbornly you have so far clung to your ideas about how this project is to be run, my inclination is that i am more right than wrong.

tl;dr you should release this album on the BotB bandcamp instead of doing all this crazy convoluted stuff to get "a single decadent coffee-based drink treat" for those involved

i wanted to give feedback and criticism about the ultimate hum since september and i think now is the moment when i should do this.
i share damis opinion here, and wanna add some more stuff:

i dont have anything against well structured battle projects on botb, but this one was hosted under the purpose of "only submitting a draft" and polishing it later. and i was told while voting to vote on the idea rather than the songs because they get finished later anyway...??
excuse me, but this sounds like abusing botb to scout ideas rather than making botb the main focus of the project, and thats what annoys me.

entries made for botb battles should always aim to be made for the battle, and this also means: if youre participating in a OHB, 2HB or 4HB, the idea is to manage your time accordingly and submit stuff that you would consider done in the best case. of course, sometimes you fuck up and end up with something unfinished, but thats still different to starting a big project within a 4hb and only submitting the draft- not even trying to get it done in 4 hours, because its really for something else.

does this make sense? remember, botb is an archive where u cant replace entries later on for a good reason. voting should always be based on the actual submission and people who are browsing the page in 10 years are most likely just listen to the submitted entry rather than some polished version that is uploaded somewhere else
(at least thats what i do when i come across 2010-entries, even if they have a link to an updated version in the comments, i usually listen to the botb-version. and most mirrors from 10 years ago are down anyway)

another thing that fucked me up were the seperate chats. i know, you moved from a different discord-server to the cave dingle server, but it was still a "this is a hum-battle, not a battle of the bits"-feeling to me.

we also had a discussion about your attitude itself, and even if i dont wanna roll it out again, i still have to say that i really dont like how you treat your project as THE (only) important one on botb. shittalking people if they accidentally host close to the hum-battles because the battle "is going to make the participants feel exhausted, so that they cant work on the hum-entries with all their energy" and dumb things about how your battle series saved botb while the real reason for the activity this year was most likely covid, new xhb-types and opm.

i appreciate your dedication towards the project but it doesnt seem like a community project where botb is the main focus, it feels more like you already had a very precised idea about this from the beginning and you did everything possible to push the final result closer to your expectations rather than just letting it happen.
dami already said a lot of stuff about the feedback- and polishing-stage where you were freaking out about details, kinda forced people to work on and polish their entries until YOU were happy with them. it makes me feel like you always need 100% control about everything and if something is even 1% off, you cant take it and want to "fix" it.
if you really want a concept album full of great chiptunes, where every little detail is exactly how you want it to be... well you should just do something yourself instead of train a bunch of other people to do it.

i dislike the patreon and bandcamp pages as well, because it moves the focus from botb to yourself/your project even more (like dami said)
it makes me feel like youre trying to put yourself into the position of puke7, who build this place over the past 15 years, is working almost daily on improving it and is dealing with the community. hes the one who should get money out of this, and only he.

im a fan of botbs "non-profit"-culture and how you participate for FUN, not for MONEY. making music/art for money is something that shouldnt happen here on botb imo. it ruins the spirit. will people enter future hum-battles (if there are any and if the first one was very successful) because they appreciate the community and the challenge, or do they just want a spot on the album and get extra $$$ ?
sounds too much like a label to me, and i dont like it.

another thing i dont like is how you expect that everyone who's joining an ultimate hum battle is automatically signing up to your project, and how you message people on botb and discord if they dont reply to you fast enough. a botb participation is ALWAYS a one-time-thing and youre not forced to do anything at all after hitting submit. theres nothing you have to do later on, but your project and your attitude made it look like people signed up for a big thing where they have to put hours and hours into it.

tl;dr: i agree with dami c:

I will not write a big post rn (edit: fail), but being quite involved in the projet, I will tell what I think. The ultimate Hum was a cool series of battle, a BotB thing, and not "draft" of else, we all did all we could do do the best track we could in 4 hours, etc. Then, the idea to make an album of it is good, especially when you hear the quality of a lot of the tracks, and a polish stage on the track is in my opinion again, something necessary when you want to do an album. I even suggested this idea because I had similar experiences in other communities, and it is how they work most of the time.

Doing a separate Bandcamp, well I don't think it was necessary, but it can also make thing far easier to manage I guess, to spread the money it will eventually do, and multiple people already decided to send their part of the money back to puke/BotB. Also, If I remember, that was discussed between Max and puke and they agreed on that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So I see no problem, even if I am more to promote BotB itself, and the official accounts.

Max didn't took a "part" of the money for himself in the plan he did, etc, and this is things you know better from inside the project. I understand because of some tensions, stress etc, you can have a negative view of it, but on my side, I am just happy I participated, and inside the project, we have a very good visibility of what is going on. I can't wait the album and I think despites some errors and tensions, Max also deserve kudo for the hard work he put in the project, the time he envested, the stream he did etc.

For me it was a good series of Battle of the Bits battles, I don't consider it like more important than other battles, but more ambitious in its goal, and we just worked more to do the best album we could. All errors made etc are just experience to make the next project better and smooth, with ever more fun and good music.

My advice? Just enjoy the result of our efforts :) Stay zen people...

i feel that some of the things i said probably came across as rude or harsh so i wanna clarify a couple things--

1) i highly doubt that you are actually trying to do anything weird with whatever money gets made, and even though you'd be the only one seeing the bandcamp funds, i do trust you'd handle them appropriately, as imo you have gone above and beyond in trying to be as transparent about your money distribution method as possible. i just feel that none of this is Actually Necessary given the probable scope of the album's release, and would prefer to see it released on the BotB bandcamp, but at the end of the day that is Just Like, My Opinion Man and so maybe my writeup was excessive if that's what i was trying to convey... particularly if you have indeed talked with puke7 at length about this already.

2) i can see how you might want to feel like you're contributing as much as possible since you are not contributing music yourself. i am sure you want to feel you are a part of the community and a part of the project you conceived, which is totally valid. i think in the future you should be less hands-on about it, because you are already playing a vital role by being the organizer, and your approach did impact some of the musicians who participated this time. that is really all i hope you take away from my criticism, that you can take steps back and trust others to get the job done.

3) i really am looking forward to hearing the final product, and i'm sure even more work was put into it than what i imagine. if the people participating are all okay with things working this way, then yes, i will just enjoy the result of everyone's efforts and leave it at that. perhaps it is not quite my business as a non-participant.

Man, there is some real miscommunication and (in my opinion) misjudgement going on here. I've been involved in the project from the beginning, and, by and large, I didn't feel like Max was behaving in the way the above posts painted him to be. There were a few mistakes made, for sure, and some learning curve. But overall, the experience was really positive and collaborative and fun. I think some of you are misreading Max's energy, passion and excitement as something else. And it makes me sad to see it to be honest. Yes there were things we all learned from this project that would be done differently in the future, but it inspired so many people to create so much amazing music.

I could go either way on the bandcamp issue. I think it would work either on botb or separate. I don't see any issue at all with it being separate though, as Max and Puke worked that out. And this is something new to be honest. It's something different and much more ambitious. So I understand having it separate.

I for one think this project is amazing and am so excited for people to hear all of it. It has been very challenging in many different ways. Max is by no means the only person who has made mistakes along the way. I truly believe his heart was and is entirely in the right place, and I want all of you to know that.

[snipped]

From the very beginning I had a lot of passion, and (rare for anything) drive for this idea, and as it grew from idea to action, from action to effect, and now from effect to reality, that passion only grew. All I want to do is make it as much a success as I can.

I may have made a few people upset, and have been upset myself a few times, but I'm a human like everyone else, and make mistakes. I never meant harm, and hopefully the apologies helped where I could get them through

I would just like to thank everyone who stuck with me the entire way through this 4-month journey, to thank everyone's efforts, because mine is nothing in comparison to the total manhours, and especially nothing without everyone.

I am willingly avoiding the mastered versions to have a fresh look along with everyone who would like to join us on the saturday 3PM that will house our release.. and god am I hyped for it.









On a side note...
I don't like gatekeeping.
Everyone loses at that game.
Please just stop.

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wew lad ok I feel partly responsible for this because i may have been the one who "broke the ice" while talking to some of the people involved so i would like to say that while i agree with dami and kleeder in general i also truly believe that you're not doing this maliciously and are trying to do good things for everyone

however i think a few things, especially all the money talk, you are unintentionally doing things that bad people do on purpose in order to get free work from hardworking professionals, which is why some people have such strong reactions to it. people go crazy whenever money is mentioned so it's really in both your and everyone else's best interests to keep things as simple as possible so that you don't accidentally ruin a friendship because of an honest accounting mistake due to the complicated way you're divvying up the money (i have seen this literally happen, it sucks)

the other thing that stuck out to me is the part where you said you maybe might give some money to people whose songs were rejected before the polishing stage. asking people to do work for you and then saying "thanks but it's not good enough, sorry. i miiiiight give you a little something if i think you're cool though" is a big no-no when working with professionals and it should be a big no-no regardless of who you work with. how would you feel if you had been organizing this for someone else with the expectation of getting paid, only to be told your work isn't good enough so you won't be getting a cut unless you're lucky? if someone contributed to the project they should get something in return even if you don't use their work in the final product

i was not involved in anything else and i'm only going off info that was public so i won't comment on anything else

i'm glad the project is almost finished but i hope this can also help understand why dami and kleeder and others have said the things they said, so that ultimate hum 2 can go even smoother and better in the future

also if anyone uses this as an opportunity to call maxi a bad person or criticize other things they can fuckin fight me, don't jump on the bandwagon

It's not a "maybe might give money to those who didn't make it". There's a definite chunk of money that is dedicated to it. I don't know about the effect of the randomness, but already I've described and will implement the way to control that randomness to make it more fair, aka so as to divide it more equally, if we make enough for that to matter (at which point I might just change the way it's split). I don't know why you want to put that much personality into it, because again, it's not about me. The clause about "worthwhile entry" is just to stop people playing the system, because money does tend to cause that. I don't intend to manipulate or use that to my advantage/for the people I like.

I honestly don't know how viable an equal division of that 10% portion between "everyone who made at least one worthwhile entry and isn't on the album" is going to be. I feel like it will just make the "how tiny the individual money made is" criticism worse. Packaging them into nice round numbers makes it more... substancial, real, even if it's got randomness to it, it should make some people happy that weren't expecting it. I will have to do some maths to see if it's worth considering, though.

I understand that most people here are extremely good at what they do, but in the end, I'd like it to be thought as a nice added bonus. Don't think about it being a wierd commission system where it's all about professionals and money, but instead a reward system for the higher effort/tryhardness that comes with the project's ambitiousness (because keep in mind botbrs have been making music projects here for free for a long time, and that hasn't stopped anyone). It's still BotB in the end.

If that 10% potion ends up not working in the end I might just remove it and instead pay the album hummers more. (and thus simplify it)

Also second project is going to be more freeform.

i hope that this “second project” you are planning is hosted using a badge that you earned by participating in battles on this website.

first off - i do feel i owe you an apology for starting this dialogue in the middle of your album announcement thread; this was not the right forum for this discussion, and so i apologize for basically coming in and raining on your parade.

i don't think we'll see eye-to-eye regarding what you DMed me but thank you for responding. i hope that all the actions you're taking have been approved and supported by those participating, and have puke's blessing as well. i don't think you've really set out to be malicious with this money setup, either; you've just gotta be aware of how it looks, and be extraordinarily careful - honestly, especially if it does against all odds truly take off. (imo this is just not worth it but if you can shoulder it and no one gets hurt, more power to you. as long as others want this..)

i hope that you'll have learned from all you've experienced this time, and have a much smoother 2nd future project. be respectful, give others more control, insert yourself less, and likely you'll face fewer issues.

Yeaaaah soooo...........
The Ultimate Hum's first album releasing soon!
I am excited for it, Are You?

The album is projected to be released this Saturday 19th or the next 26th . The plans are for a 3:00pm eastern standard time stream to celebrate the release.

I'm hoping we have all said our piece for the time being and can come together for the holidays. This is that time of year where we can all join each other as a community and show some support to all the hummers for all their hard work and dedication to this project.

peace on earth and good will toward all mankind.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, but here's the tracklist in order!

01. petet — Cryptic Carvings
02. Blue.Nocturne — Tranquil Mountain
03. Radnyx — Village in the Trees
04. mandrasigma — Home Away From Home
05. Vav — Shrouded Shrine City Daisurat
06. Blue.Nocturne — Crossing the Swamp
07. aji — Forest Ambience 2
08. Karl Brueggemann — The Latent Wonders of the Deep Forest
09. ko0x — In the Heart of the Forest
10. mk7 — Spirit of the Forest
11. Petet — Scary Gongs and Nice Lights
12. mirageofher — Simple Foresty, and it D-d-D-d-DEEP
13. Ominous Pigeon Master — Athletic Easaidh Ruadh
14. Vav — Jewel Reef
15. Jakerson — Can You See How Wonderful It Is
16. Blue.Nocturne — Deep Dive
17. Biruhan — Forgotten Ocean
18. Karl Brueggemann — Diving Into the Submerged Relic City
19. zenkusa — An Ocean From Another World
20. ko0x — Vertical Ocean
21. Mister Minister Master — Sacred Leaf
22. Vav — The Heavens Bear Witness to Our Battle!
23. Jakerson — Eu Irei Descansar Aqui
24. Blue.Nocturne — Unbroken Promise
25. CastleNes — Hall of the Mountain Hermit Castle
26. Karl Brueggemann — Locked Away in the Mountain Fortress (Longing, Rescuing)
27. Blue.Nocturne — Facing the Dark Lord Karl
28. petet — Aurora Hymn
29. zenkusa — An Adventurer's Reflection in the Morning Pond
30. Jakerson — Snow Journey
31. Viravax — Snowflakes on the Hidden Valley
32. Karl Brueggemann — Crossing the Frigid Icelands
33. Mister Minister Master — Barren Future
34. zenkusa — Nuclear Wonderland
35. Ominous Pigeon Master — Through the Donut Swamp
36. zenkusa — Fierce Swamp Battle
37. Karl Brueggemann — Thoughts of Maiden Elena
38. Jakerson — Nice Dracula
39. Michael Frank — Haunted Castle Conquest
40. Karl Brueggemann — In the Halls of the Blood-Soaked Castle
41. Vav — Onryo-o ~ Fighting For Every Soul
42. Blue.Nocturne — The Great Desert Abal Ham Jamar
43. petet — End of the World? (Reckoning By Heat)
44. Vav — Harmattan Headwind
45. Jakerson — Colorful Waterfall

the reactions in this thread are exactly why i think it's better to avoid talk of money in general for community projects, people get insanely touchy whenever even the possibility of getting money enters the picture and it completely changes all the interpersonal relationships and you have to treat it with so much more care and respect to avoid making people mad. money is power and power corrupts i hate it

oops i didn't see there's more replies now, i'll drop it

Poor Castle, sandwiched between BlueNoc and Karl in the tracklist hehe

waaaat an unofficial botb album?

No, it is affiliated to BotB and there will be links to BotB Bandcamp and website ;) Also, we had the benediction of Mark Ferrari, the man who created the artworks we used as bitpacks!

oh man everybody's making such big posts!! i gotta make a big post too, or I won't be popular! uhhhh....oh, I know! I'll talk about my early creative life!! that should fill some space. skip to the end if you just want album review

in high school, before I knew what I was doing, I always had such ambitious plans. I still do, but I had no idea how to actually execute my ideas back then. I had this idea, divorced from actual artistic labor as I was back then, that I would pitch a game doc to a creative studio and they'd bring it to life through their respective roles. After all, whatever magical work a programmer does is probably a similar level of work to my ADD-riddled ass managing to create a design document, right? Anyway, you probably already know what this is: I was the "idea guy", the person with no development experience, who wasn't even sure how to *get* that kind of knowledge, who nevertheless wanted to be involved. Naturally, nothing ever came of that strategy.

Now, game jams were a great wake-up call for me. They were the first time I got to be around people as they seriously worked on media. As I did more of them, I gradually shifted from idea guy to tool-assisted level designer to debugger - and eventually sound guy because I started doing music! (how did that even happen?!) But I have some sad memories of people who were always in a bad position in day 1 of jams. They thought they couldn't join any other group because all those groups already had the key members with skillz - programmers, artists, sound, programmers, programmers. So they'd start their own group, with them as the project lead...and no one else was joining their group. And they'd be freaking the fuck out because the hours were ticking by and they couldn't get anyone to do the art for their project. In my earliest jams, that'd certainly be me if people didn't so nicely let me into their groups.

In those years, I had a real cool friend, and all we really did was play video games together. But he always came to me with big ideas. "Hey man, let's record ourselves here and edit the footage into us killing zombies!" "Dude, we should totally make a game together. I have such a great idea for one." Obviously, none of it ever turned into anything. When I started experimenting with streaming, I always invited him because I thought he was funny, but I always ended up frustrated because he was either high or half-paying attention every time I brought him on. He wasn't taking it seriously, you know? I wasn't paying him to be there or anything, but I was still upset that I couldn't reliably get him to be invested in the stream like I was. He totally signed up to do the stream with me, and then he didn't do the real work that came with it afterwards. Nobody who knew the guy would say he didn't have passion, but for someone who was supposedly so eager to make cool shit with me, he never really got into it when it was time to put the work in. And his ambitions only dwindled over time. It seemed clear to me, anyway, that even if we did make something together, I'd be doing all the work...and he had zero idea of what doing that work was actually like. It only really started to bug me once I stopped being an "idea guy" and got much more serious about my goals. I like to think we're still friends, even though I had to move on.

So eventually, I got on a path, right? My music was fuckin ROUGH starting out, but I had a cool idea. Through some weird-ass machinations, I was able to contact voice actor Paul Eiding, famous for playing characters like Colonel Campbell in Metal Gear Solid. I wanted to get a sample of him for my music. I knew zero about what professional voice actors do or what their pay is like, but I asked the guy: "Hey, listen. I have no idea if this is uncouth or anything, but like...if I gave you 15 bucks, would you be willing to record a voice line for me?" I take dumb shots like that all the time. You'd be surprised how many dunks you can make if you go for a three-pointer every week. And what amazing luck: The motherfucker actually got back to me. He sent me a recording, and it came with a prologue.

Now, I'll paraphrase so as to pretend I don't remember his exact words and that they're not seared into my brain: "You know, your instincts were right. 15 dollars is not fair for what you're asking. And yes, it is inappropriate to ask for that. But hell, you never know until you try, and it's cool that you tried. So let's give you this one for free, why not?"

It was a pog-ass gesture, the song I made sucked balls, and I learned something. The relevant part of the audio he gifted me is in botb's sample heap. I treasure it for multiple reasons. It's weird that he both taught me to value people's time and labor...while also rewarding me for making a dumbass moonshot and grasping for his attention. But I get it now.

Realizing that I'm most likely autistic over the last year really helped put a lot of this stuff into perspective.

I'm still not exactly making bank off my creative work, but this has been, by far, the most creatively successful year of my life. I'm really happy with how far I've come. And looking back on it, the most important thing I learned is that there are really only two ways to create a massive project that requires diligent collaboration:

1) Do everything yourself.
2) Make your collaborators professional and pay them a fair wage. Don't pay them in spec. Don't count on their passion being enough to have them do an unknown number of hours of work. It won't work.

And even in the case of #2, without a clear directorial vision and goals, it can still fail spectacularly, as we've seen in the case of every video game startup created by trust-fund babies. A director MUST have some idea of what can be reasonably expected of each collaborator. If they were to, for example, ask for some length of animation, which most animators understand to be a large task, them not being aware of how much work goes into that would be disastrous for understanding the project's scope. They also have to, in the case of profit-based ventures, have a realistic understanding of how much money they're likely to make.

I don't look down on anyone who's in the process of learning the lessons I had to learn. It's rough. But hey, sometimes you hit a triple and one out of ten people you try to get work out of actually show up. In my opinion, that makes it worse, because you can learn the wrong lesson from that kind of success.

anyway that had nothing to do with anything, just thought it was interesting. Cool album max! i like when the bass goes woawoaowaowoawo

:3

please dont meme the thread

the thread?

the thread?

the

You're the meme

Alright it's official: The listen party will be
Saturday December 26th 3PM EST/8PM GMT
and subsequently the release as it ends

I hope everyone will greatly enjoy the fruits of our collective efforts