WEEKLY INSIGHT THREAD NO. 1: Beard & Xaser
BotB Academy Bulletins
 
 
56203
Level 22 Chipist
Beard
 
 
 
post #56203 :: 2015.04.14 11:50pm :: edit 2015.04.15 12:32am
https://clyp.it/yhoe0kcf
https://clyp.it/hdooslit
https://clyp.it/zrqvz01r
more examps

focusing on mixing/instrument cohesiveness questions the most! kf thank you for making this thread and thank you, the future responders, for doing that responding

(bonus question: how do i take my songs somewhere and make it a habit? i'm getting stuck in making short loops)
 
 
56206
Level 26 Mixist
Xaser
 
 
 
post #56206 :: 2015.04.15 12:57am
  
  Beard liēkd this
Whee, glad to see this happening! ;)

As a heads-up, most of my modarchive stuff is pretty old, so it's really not a clear example of candidate tracks for what I'm talking about (though Xanthous Lullabies and Sideways could work). More recent stuff is on my BotB profile; more specifically, these are a few I'm strongly considering super-mixifying and albumizing:
http://static.angryscience.net/pub/music/xaser%20-%20mindcrank.it
http://static.angryscience.net/pub/music/xaser%20-%20frostbitten.it
http://battleofthebits.com/arena/Entry/submarine+time+machine/16711/
http://battleofthebits.com/arena/Entry/stay+home+and+eat+all+the+friggin+chips+kip.it/13319/
http://battleofthebits.com/arena/Entry/persephone.it/15830/
http://battleofthebits.com/arena/Entry/salamander+cheese.mp3/15857/
http://battleofthebits.com/arena/Entry/geowars+-+title+theme.mp3/16149/
http://battleofthebits.com/arena/Entry/voyage+of+the+wildship/11997/

[the first 4 are definitely going on; the next 3 are short and i might reappropriate them for other game stuff, or maybe do a free EP as a test of the process; wildship is obligatory. we are the aliens is also going on the album, but it's not a module so it's exempt from the mixing discussion. :P ]

I'll see if I can pass some advice to Sir Beard as well, once I get some time to sit down n' listen.
 
 
56207
Level 28 Chipist
stewboy
 
 
 
post #56207 :: 2015.04.15 1:35am
  
  MisaelK, Boglin, Beard and goluigi liēkd this
so I wanted to write something on the melody writing question because I think a lot about it, and then it kind of grew into a long sprawly vague stream-of-consciousnessy mess that I didn't want to unnecessarily lengthen this thread with, so I pastebin'd it: http://pastebin.com/MRwYgAFd

I hope maybe there might be something in there that might be useful or interesting to someone. I kind of cover a few areas because my mind got distracted a bit.
 
 
56240
Level 29 Mixist
goluigi
 
 
 
post #56240 :: 2015.04.15 9:10pm
  
  Beard liēkd this
beard:::::::::::
i think the easiest way to make a melody is just to hum something and then transcribe it....if ur really stuck you could get some sort of beat going and try to hum something (i don't do this normally but very occasionally i do sometimes)

if u want to make sure you don't have ur ideas too abrupt try to stick to a scale (many ppl will disagree w/ me on this....) what scale depends on what context and rly if you have a cool melody you might not even need to worry about that (i usually don't.....) but yea....
 
 
56244
Level 14 Mixist
johnfn
 
 
post #56244 :: 2015.04.15 10:25pm
  
  gotoandplay, Beard and goluigi liēkd this
I'm not a pro or anything but I think I can answer this one:

> (bonus question: how do i take my songs somewhere and make it a habit? i'm getting stuck in making short loops)

The more that you focus on a certain section of your song and listen to it on loop, the more you're gonna get caught stuck. To avoid getting stuck when you start writing a song, don't listen to specific part of a new song on loop too much. Just lay stuff down, get your ideas out, and quickly move to the next part. You can come back and flesh things out later, once you've got a better feel for how the song as a whole is going to go.

The more you focus down on a single part and listen to it over and over again, the more it gets engrained in your mind, which makes it more difficult to add anything new.
 
 
56254
Level 22 Chipist
Beard
 
 
 
post #56254 :: 2015.04.16 1:22pm
stewboy: i really appreciate you taking the effort to write all of that! i'll definitely keep it in mind. although i don't understand half of the fancy musical terms used in it, i'll figure it out (i found the tension concept very interesting though)

golgi: thank you : ))) i've been using scales to make sure my melodies aren't flying all over the place tonally as of late, yknow how one note can throw everything off sometimes...but overall humming out or just playing out a melody from my mind works well :000

johnfn and keramon: oh heheh this advice was actually very useful. commonly my songs are 2 bar loops and stuck at that lately because (especially in a DAW) it's easy to keep a part you like looped. sometimes i get too caught up in it! i suppose i have to go with the flow more and stop over-calculating the stuff because then i never get anything done; keramon that empty pattern idea is smart too, definitely appreciated and useful

thank you guys, keep the conversation going! don't forget my boy xaser too ;v;
 
 
56261
Level 30 Mixist
Baron Knoxburry
 
 
 
post #56261 :: 2015.04.16 3:13pm
  
  goluigi, gotoandplay, Xaser and Boglin liēkd this
On concerning mixing I try to trust visualizers over my ears. I have a lot of hearing damage, but I'm also averse to higher frequencies anyways. In an effort to improve and explore production, yeah, the I listen to what the visualizers have to say about my master out. I try to keep things even all across the human hearing spectrum. That can be a tricky thing to do if you have shitty samples and overcompensating just to achieve that spectrum balance might lead to earbleeds.

Xaser : yes, if you create stubs you can definitely create a better final mix. Obviously you want each instrument in its own channel for that. Renoise can import .XM files and you can convert .IT to .XM using some tool somewhere. Being able to compress a single channel can help smooth things out.

Another thing I've learned is how to keep clean the muddy frequencies. These are somewhere between bass and mids (300Hz). Basically, if all your instruments share this space then this space will be loudest and effect your overall level of things when mastering. This sort of thing can actually happen anywhere on the frequency spectrum.

Unless an instrument is a kick or specifically bass, I will typically apply a hi-pass filter to at least remove all sub frequencies. This can be tricky because as you raise the cutoff things will be lighter, there's more space and air, but it also removes the body of the instrument and leaves with you a nasal cavity. But, yeah, on vocals I always struggle for the balance between warmth and mud (sub frequencies gotta go).

Beard: as far as lengthening your songs, yeah, that's some shit. I totally agree with what johnfn said. I often get hypnotized by a single pattern. My best advice I can give is to just create an equally long amount of space and write another groove that uses the same instruments, tempo and key (or close to). If you can write three grooves you basically already have a song. Dupe your patterns into some song order like A B A C A or A B A B C A C B A or whatever. Then go back through and add changes like embellishments or dropping out instruments. Viola! Your song is 3x as long as if you had a single pattern. Also, sometimes sudden jarring changes are more intriguing than keeping everything totally cohesive.
 
 
56264
Level 8 Mixist
Boglin
 
 
post #56264 :: 2015.04.16 5:16pm
  
  Sylveon and Beard liēkd this
How do I write music that goes places without being too abrupt tonally/stylistically?

The most important factor is to have something to say / have an image in your mind of what you want to express, and let that guide you throughout the piece. End the piece when it is 'done'. Go purely on feeling here. A good way of sounding cohesive and not too wayward, is to use the same colour pallet. in music's case this is your initial sound pool. Look at techno, the best techno uses very few elements but somehow its interesting throughought a whole 8 minute arrangement or so. Little details/changes go a long way. Have dynamics represent the 'places' - loud, quiet, sparse, full, slow, fast etc. Also look at it as a story, create a beginning, middle and end.

To stop getting stuck on a loop, figure out what your main reason for the song's existence is, this will be your main section, say 8 - 16 bars long. So copy this for the duration of a song length. Now you technically have a finished song. You could export it as it is, but obviously any creative would want to do more than just loop up an idea. So now go to the start, and begin turning the first 16/32 bars into an intro - stripping elements right back, introducing each new elements over a period of time, but save a few elements until the main section (33rd bar eg).

Now you have an intro for 32 bars, a main section for 32 bars, and now you can work on a B section, modifying the A section, then a little breakdown where you can introduce something new to add interest, then you can go back to your A+B section and then create a little outro, and you can begin to see how you can create a whole song out of just a loop. Also it will also be tonally/stylistically cohesive as you use the same colour pallet for the most part.

This can be seen as quite cynical/generic way of approaching composing, but I'm into the idea of restrictive, traditional song form, paired with unique/experimental ideas within that framework.

imo imo imo etc
 
 
56267
Level 29 Mixist
goluigi
 
 
 
post #56267 :: 2015.04.16 9:10pm
re: bknox "you can convert .IT to .XM using some tool somewhere."

i haven't seen a single tool that does this well...probably because .it has a lot of stuff .xm doesn't have direct relatives of...

i'm not a mix pr0master, but i would recommend exporting all the channels separately and mixing them in something else instead...or you could probably just write in xm idk lol
 
 
56269
Level 26 Mixist
Xaser
 
 
 
post #56269 :: 2015.04.16 10:59pm
For channel exporting, I'm gonna write a simple prog to do that at some point. I ought to be able to wrangle BASS or something to loop through and export to WAV, and just programmatically mangle the module in-memory to just set all but one instrument to zero volume and repeatedly render. Hacky as fark, but it ought to work. :P

Anyhow, super-thanks for the advice, sir b-knox sir! I've been tinkering a tiny bit more with Reason and managed to find the spectrum visualizer (which, TBH, I probably should've noticed by now :P ); the idea of using that as a base and saying "fuck ears" is actually rather appealing, since that's a methodology which -doesn't- involve just twiddling knobs and seeing what happens. Guesswork suckses.
 
 
56271
Level 29 Mixist
goluigi
 
 
 
post #56271 :: 2015.04.16 11:58pm
bknox, what visualisers do you recommend/use ???
 
 
56302
Level 30 Mixist
Baron Knoxburry
 
 
 
post #56302 :: 2015.04.18 8:03am
  
  Sylveon, goluigi and Xaser liēkd this
The renoise visualizer is honestly kind of shit. Maybe it's better or more accurate or easier to read in 3.0 (i'm still rocking 2.8) I haven't tried any kind of vst for this really. The ozone eq has one, but eh. I find that winamp's spectrum visualizer is very spot on or easiest to perceive what it's telling you. So what do I use in real time?!?!? HARDWARE!! :P I bought one of these things
about a year ago. It has 14 bands and tells me close to everything I need to know.

Whatever DAW you are using I am sure there is some sort of spectral visualizer built in. I'm also sure there must be some kick ass aural analyzers in VST format or whatever your DAW requires.
 
 
56310
Level 29 Mixist
goluigi
 
 
 
post #56310 :: 2015.04.18 1:59pm
bknox, now i am very curious

what kind of stuff should i be looking for in a spectrum?? what stuff (eq curves, etc) is bad? can i get some examples?? (i don't mean what spectrums are good i mean in a song when i am mixing or something what stuff should i be looking for on the visualiser)

(sorry this is a really vague question haha...)
 
 

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