is this u singin?

i'm curious about the vocals too!

Oh no, I don't know how to sing, and I can't either.

where are the vocals from then? are they just from splice or something?

apologies for the interrogative tone - i don't want to assume anything bad ofc, but seeing 'uncredited vocals in an entry by a botbr who has been caught using genai before' just raises some alarm bells for me lol

The voice is generated by an algorithm.
But all the music is created by hand by me.

you already received a 1 month ailment for using ai.. i'm not sure what would make you think it's okay just because it's only for the vocals. you didn't even need to include vocals at all to make a strong submission for this major - look at paper aviator's entry, for example - so even if you couldn't do vocals yourself you could have just made it an instrumental, or sought out a vocalist to collaborate with?

(edit - i know you said 'algorithm', not 'ai', but i struggle to imagine what other algorithm you would have used to create vocals like this aside from the things falling under the umbrella of the recently-emerging generative ai technologies.. if i am wrong on this, please correct me!)

Ew ai generated vocals

a reasonable place to draw the line on what's OK and what's not - are the lyrics and melodies written by you? if it's just the performance being done by a computer, it's not really different than vocaloid, which i think everyone is ok with. so, what happened here? what tools were used, did you write the words, did you create the melodies?

@avoset in the future please just let us (admins) know about a situation like this so we can decide whatever needs to be done, thank you!

i did let jangler know, and she said she would pass the message on. i'm not trying to take the place of mods or admins in any way, just expressing frustration and complete confusion over why snabisch would do this, especially in a community like this where someone would probably have been happy to actually record real vocals for the song.

that being said, i think the generative ai technologies which have emerged in the last few years are fundamentally distinct from vocaloid, even if there is a grey area where the end results of both can end up sounding similar. generally speaking i'm okay with vocaloid (excluding more recent versions which include genai) but not generative ai for vocals (with exceptions in cases), and i'm pretty sure this is a view which is shared by some of my peers. the technologies are fundamentally different and the recent wave of generative ai technology comes with a whole host of issues which are not necessarily present with vocaloid.

i also just feel like it makes sense to draw a line at generative ai; i feel like as soon as you allow something like this, you open the floodgates to a whole series of other things where it's hard to define what's acceptable and what's not (e.g. if small bits of expression/slides/small ad libs are added by the ai, would that be allowed? if the vocal is processed to the point of barely being recognisable as a vocal, is it still okay to use ai? some people have recently developed ai for synthesising audio based on XML files - is that really so different to telling a vocal ai what melody and lyrics to use? why does it become okay to use ai specifically for timbre but not for melody/harmony/etc? what about the cases where the melody might be literally just one note repeating anyway (e.g. riddim dubstep) and all the interest is coming from the timbre anyway? as well as the ethical issues i take with a lot of generative ai, it also feels much simpler to just draw a line at generative ai completely instead of having to address each grey area individually and arbitrarily when people inevitably push the boundaries anyway?)

snabisch. in future, if you would like to include vocals in your entry and aren't willing to record your own or use something like vocaloid, please don't resort to generative AI. hit me up instead! collab offer's on the table indefinitely. i will sing for you, baby.

Sorry if I made another mistake, it is not my intention to generate controversy.
I generated the voice using a web page; obviously, I indicated the main theme about which I had to sing or speak.
Even so, I treated it with effects to give it the underground tone I was looking for, applying a filter in FL Studio.
If I deserve a wake-up call, I accept it. I didn't mean to be annoying either.

Of course, once again, I apologize a thousand times. I didn't know that generated voices could not be used.

Do you want me to re-upload it again without the voices?

Oops, sorry again. It's not possible. I didn't remember that we are in voting period.

AI vocals aside, this is not midwest emo at all

I think I got it. It is not penalized the use of AI, but the fact that it is not specified in the description, that is not visible to the moderators. Ok. I'll keep this in mind for future projects.
My apologies.

it says in the rules of every battle that 'generative processes are permitted if designed by the entrant'. if admins are going to make exceptions to that rule then it should at least be explained in the battle rules so other entrants are aware of the real boundaries, even if i dont agree with [making an exception in this case] personally.

(afaik snabisch also broke this rule twice before? the walkthrough entry and the cover art entry?)

(edit, wtf i just looked at snabisch's entries and so many of the visual ones are ai/based on ai??)

Yes, I think if you designed the LLM or otherwise which is producing the output then it is allowable per these rules. But if you are just using a proprietary AI service, then it shouldn't be allowed per the rules because the entrant didn't design the process, only the input to the process.

Also worth noting regarding the distinction between AI vocals and vocaloid... Vocaloid is a passion project wherein everyone including the singers who provided the training/sample data was a willing participant.

The same cannot be said for black box AI web apps with dubious training material. If said training material includes copyrighted material that was illegally scraped, I don't think I'm out of line in saying it's wholly against the spirit of the rule as written.

@Snab if you are able to hop on the site IRC or Discord, please reach out and we’ll chat. I think it would be helpful to clarify the rules and expectations better than comments on your profile or entries. Por tu ultimo comentario, creo que todavia hay dudas o confusion sobre las reglas, mejor que hablemos para clarificar. Thanks!