:O pog

the hum?

the sample pack appears to be an empty zip folder

yeah its still being woked on
dont worry too much about it id say

I'm here to worry (not really)

electro house, eh

It should be fixed now. The bitpack is also available anyway on both the work server and puke7's Discord in the #ultimate-hum-chats channel

Have fun :D

READ ME! https://battleofthebits.com/academy/GroupThread/27586/

e

edit: im hella excited and open to collabs

this sucks on ice

nice title

Hahahahaha puk pls

WTF I wanted to vote on the bitpack. It's so good.

Remember: There's going to be a 22-hour-long voting period, and then a sync-listen on Saturday 3PM EDT/EST to show the tracks off and finish voting!

Aww shoot, just noticed the theme -- I picked a hell of a time to be mentally absent from reality for a week. :P

Themes

Week 1: Electro, Electro-House & Complextro!
Week 2: Classical and Orchestral!
Week 3: Drum & Bass, NeuroFunk & Breaks!

HEY FOLKS --

In order for the next round to work correctly I have to migrate us over to the new battle engine! But before I do that here on the public server I want to test a bunch of stuff on my localhost. You won't be able to submit to round 2 until this change happens.

Current bitpack is updated for Week 2 / Round 2

RESULTS IN 63 DAYS :O

awe heck yeah -- last weeks results are here:

RANK 1) sasami - WARNING: Do Not Try This At Home - score 32.844
RANK 2) Biruhan - Chipland Hero - score 31.994
RANK 3) MrMinisterMaster - Agent 56 - score 30.065
RANK 4) bluenocturne - Live Each Day Like It's Your Last - score 28.319
RANK 5) 2a03fox + A64 + tael - there when ư̵̫͙̣̳̥̄̀͆͐̊͗͗̔̇̈́̏͝ fall - score 28.154
RANK 6) ASIKWUSpulse - Ascended world of harmonies (Radio edit... - score 27.451
RANK 7) tree - vampire girl rave <3 - score 27.112
RANK 8) Nes + doctorn0gloff + OminPigeonMaster - Electrovanium - score 26.339
RANK 9) stewboy - Glassy Shards - score 25.991
RANK 10) argarak - retrotech time capsule - score 25.084
RANK 11) OminPigeonMaster - Dark Cave 骨髄 - score 25.010
RANK 12) CastleNes + TristEndo - Together we go - score 24.479
RANK 13) TristEndo - Midnight Beast - score 24.320
RANK 14) Viravax - Final Confrontation - score 24.297
RANK 15) DCT Master - lookin' ahead - score 23.147
RANK 16) Luigi64 - The Billy Dimension - score 20.520
RANK 17) hqaoqu - Electro Den Sileigzro - score 20.463
RANK 18) Magnus Clyde - Λεπτός. Σφυγμός. Πόλκα. - score 18.849
RANK 19) Public Toilet - Free Electro Music - score 18.106

HI HELLO i am here to offer a little more detail on the genre for week 2, "classical/orchestral", which is kind of unclear/unfocused as it stands.

"classical" in the broad, modern sense usually means anything written for the concert stage and for acoustic instruments (and usually specifically the Western, often Euro-centric canonical works of instruments found in orchestras, wind ensembles or choirs - a lot of the stuff Max linked is among the most famous to those who haven't really been exposed further). the term "classical" is somewhat confusing though because in the history of this tradition, there is also a "Classical" (capital C) period, defined by dudes like Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven and specifically referring to a timeframe of about 1730-1820. people in this sphere tend to say "art music" instead of "classical music" as the broader term if they are very pretentious, but imo "concert music" is most sensible. "orchestral" on the other hand is more of a descriptor than a genre, dictating the colors you're painting with so to speak. it's like "chiptune" in that regard, it tells you the sorts of sounds you expect to hear. (incidentally, i firmly disagree about jazz, which can indeed be incorporated in this music. Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" is probably the most famous example of this and that dates all the way back to the 1920s! however, it's probably safe to assume one of the other weeks of Hum 2 will be jazz fusion, so maybe it is not relevant to discuss that this week...)

anyway, although the Classical period has some structural relevance to VGM (especially with its heavy focus on melody + accompaniment - that guy Mozart sure knew how to spin those), i think it is most relevant to talk about the Romantic period (which came right after Classical) and about Impressionism which followed thereafter. the Romantics were by and large the first composers to really embrace emotion for its own sake, and broad fascination with nature, mysticism etc... what this meant for music was that it became more about self-expression with clearer associations of what the music "meant", and generally sought to break free of the rigid forms and harmony of earlier periods (probably the thing you think of as "Music Theory(TM)"). by and large, VGM composers subscribe to a similar ethos, which is to say their music is infused with emotion and is allowed to deviate harmonically without following strict rules about what "can" and "cannot" be done (like how parallel fifths weren't allowed in Bach's time).

another thing that i think is essential when discussing VGM and concert music is that the Romantics were the first to start writing "programmatic" (or just "program") music; that is, music written to represent something specific. (often this info would be given in the program notes of concerts) these guys were the original guys writing "Level Music"! that concept wasn't always around in the concert music tradition, but i think it's especially important to mention since nearly all VGM is written to underscore something specific, be it a type of area or a cutscene or a particular battle. (one of my college professors actually liked to call old Nintendo music "Japanese Neo-Romanticism") this trend continues with the Impressionists, btw, who focused strongly on atmosphere and color in music and often titled their pieces evocatively after particular "pictures" of sorts (examples below).

a little more on Impressionism - these guys basically totally stopped caring about "functional" harmony at all (i.e. common leadings of one chord to another within a key, and proper resolution of dissonances into consonances) and used lots of extended chords, often in parallel. which is to say, these guys were the original guys writing "transposecore". sounds were chosen for their color above all else. this tradition is also evident in the works of many video game music composers, and the two most notable Impressionists - Debussy and Ravel - are no doubt BIG influences on the VGM pedigree. (Koji Kondo has gone on the record saying that originally, the Zelda theme was just Ravel's Bolero, but ultimately had to write something different because of copyright)

oh! one more thing, Wagner (who started out as a Romantic guy and kinda grew more modern over his life's work) was a pioneer in the use of the "leitmotif", a melodic fragment used to represent a certain character. in his case this was for huge, sprawling operas, but you probably know this technique from "mr. tony fox undertale" using it in his popular game "undertale". it is a common technique, and due to the storytelling nature of many video games, is relevant history to the medium.

one last thing before i start dumping links - if you feel intimidated trying to approach this genre, you probably intuitively understand more about it than you think you do. yes, there is a lot of tradition and theory behind a lot of this stuff, but the most relevant part of it to writing VGM is not actually that part, and if you are steeped in video game music you surely have it in your blood to write something approaching this style. broadly speaking i'd recommend focusing on a melody and paying close attention to how you accompany it, particularly with other moving lines (this is "counterpoint" or "what keffie does in her music"); rework it and develop it as your song goes, rather than looping a single phrase, and introduce new textures freely. generally speaking this is one of the most fundamental differences from electronic music; though there can absolutely be structure to your song, you are not really "grooving". (rules are made to be broken of course, and Ravel does this with Bolero, but i have to speak generally here) harmonically you can really do whatever; like i mentioned before, Impressionists were basically transposecore, writing lots of harmonies and melodies in parallel intervals, and Romantics were less strict about Classical era harmony, so write how you feel in this regard.

LINK TIME

Debussy - Prelude to the afternoon of a faun
https://youtu.be/vnz4T33Jl7I?t=20

Debussy - The Sunken Cathedral
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAVyKDDsM3s

Ravel - Une Barque sur l'Ocean
https://youtu.be/g1aISfH5Yus?t=29

Debussy - La Mer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOCucJw7iT8

Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP42C-4zL3w

Chopin - Nocturne Op.27 No.2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ8RVjm49hE

Ravel - Bolero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNlXrdJFTAM

Mussorgsky - Pictures at an Exhibition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O31KPk5xnBg

Ravel - Pavane for a dead princess
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPZROBIFHWY

Milhaud - Suite Francaise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjCGnN9rplQ

Brahms - 6 Piano Pieces, Op.118
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXnojYMsYmA

Strauss (Richard) - Don Juan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbOV-0HE7GM

HERE ALSO are some links provided by hanna from various time periods baroque through impressionist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d35xOAuqhw4
bach passion according to matthew (bach rules. michiru yamane knows this)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdAzHzdBT-Q
menuet from french suite 3 (as heard in russian block game)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcpCjMvbSR8
couperin - les mysterieuses barricades (harpsichord. instrument number 7 in general midi. )

actually classical period

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Anpa1gJEvlM
haydn sonata 60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-X2zGcFLio
mozart symphony 40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2cQ_SG9g-w
beethoven sixth symphony

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laUMuPkm7Ow
beethoven string quartet op. 135

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk7447P_8rw
faure - fantasie

what is this 8bit fully orchestrated poop crap

Highly informative, and thank you for the more history-based point of view, like I said I wasn't going to go into that since at most I have an outsider's view on that whole rabbit hole, and nevermind me getting into techniques.

It's unfocused on purpose though; I did describe it as one of the most versatile base genres of music, and that is to me one of the most beautiful things about classical/concert music. I hope I made that clear enough with that "questions" paragraph!

And yes, I did (and will) use descriptives, and it's to be both more precise, but also offer more possibilities, rather than using a single genre since not everyone will see each genre the same way, and as such one extremely wide genre to me may feel like a narrow one to someone else.

And I fully agree that Classical in comparison to typical EDM-styled music, doesn't make use nearly as much of repetitive patterns and instead flows like a story. I should've mentioned it in the bitpack.

On the subject of Jazz, I guess you got me lol. I knew it was a thing in Classical when I typed that, just didn't want things to go too far into the more modern jazz styles since it's also pretty similarly acoustic (and by extension in writing).. for now obvious reasons lol

Anyway, thanks!

alright folks, i'm super sorry i've been distracted by life

the submission form will be made available as soon as i can!! <3

To let more time for that new special multi-stage feature to be ready and up without stressing you out to keep checking so you don't miss the submitting time, I'm extending this Round 2 for another week! Hope everyone will use that extra time to great effect :)

Hello there. I can't submit to this battle, or (seemingly) any other for that matter. Anywhere else I can send my submission for this week?

https://battleofthebits.com/arena/Battle/5944/InfoRules

Thanks! Would have taken me an eternity to figure that out on my own.

In case anyone is confused or hasn't heard, Round 2 is going to be extended another week, until 4/9!

Indeed, thank you Karl, here's the full announcement:

"With the poll results, as well as the current submitting bug(s), we will be extending this round again by another week. Don't fret, this is due to very special circumstances and won't become a pattern! So let's just act like the past two weeks never existed (and if you made music, it just popped into existance of course ;) (it's still valid)), and go... This week's theme is Classical & Orchestral! lol"

In other words this week is the real one unless BotB blows up or something, I promise

For other announcements like this, add the hummer role to yourself in puke's Discord, check regularly in the #ultimate-hum-chats channel or join the work server! (discord.gg/QmweHu7)

HEY :D -- it's your friendly, neighborhood webdev here --

just tested voting round 2 on my local
had to update some logic checks
we shouldn't have any issues
i'll double check / fix tallying round 2 on my local tomorrow after we get some votes in! :D/

are the voting categories going to stay the same?

well, the way the system is setup they stay the same throughout the whole battle

i'm not terribly excited to make them unique per battle period

but we could change them as we go
but then whatever we set them to last is what every entry will be sorted by

gonna repost it here: i think some more general voting cats would work better for this since it will feature several different genres/themes, and specific cats like "bop" or "BASS HUNTING" or "BOUNCE" feel kinda off for stuff like classical ...
layering/duckering is vague enough to work for probably everything but the other 3 are kinda edm-focussed.

would like to have them more vague, ideas: in-theme, chippyness, hum in pants, ultimatism, exploratism, exploring the pants, etc, etc, etc

more like that.
probably too late now, and i guess we will get good results with the current cats as well, ((but feels kinda weird to vote on classical music with BASS HUNTING

Max posted this in discord (not sure exactly what this means in the near term, but we'll make it work):

So here's the thing. I have to face my reality. I work too much. 6 days a week, 10-11 hours a day before transport. I literally don't have the time to make the bitpacks and also prepare my lunches, buy food, clean up, etc. It's impossible. So I will leave you with this new theme, and call the project on hold until the end of the Horticultural rush season. You thus can go ahead and take the time you need to make what you want, and I'll see you all when I'll be out of this rabbit hole :hearts:

Keffie, you were singlehandedly forcing it on me, telling me to have everyone else do everything, and I explained how due to my situation I simply had no time to even collaborate. I accused ONLY YOU of trying to take over the project, because over two days you kept nagging me about it.

You're making this sound so one-sided, it's actually kind of disgusting. "Left to his own resources" my ass. Accusing many others of taking over the project my ass. Do you want me to also start pulling direct quotes of you as you alluded again at me being abusive and untrustworthy in your desperate attempts at forcing the project out of my hands? Let me guess, the moment this gets posted, you will either delete everything you said there, or have the #ultimate-hum-chats deleted, so nobody will see exactly what happened.

Reading this, I have absolutely no reason to keep this to myself. I realize just how badly you need to make it about yourself, and how much of a bad guy I am, no matter how much you stray from the truth.

I wasn't given a real choice, it was basically just a threat to "cooperate fully" with an unknown and unsaid "or else". And I was never told anything, no warnings, as to what would happen if I didn't literally give up the project completely. I was just pried incescently for control by Keffie with no justification other than an overall "it needs to keep going now", and the absolute idiot that I am played right into your hands, and kept explaining it as I lost sleep I sorely needed.

I kept saying, and I remember at one way during that day I had fully explained this point to you to the point you basically let go for a few hours, that I don't have time to collaborate with some people to let's say outsource the bitpack, because I could already barely collaborate with Castle, who had been generous enough to draw the stream backgrounds for us with little to no input from me. And they turned out awesome, too!

Yet here's the thing: I have my limits, just like you and puke does, that caused you to take direct control of this situation with equally no communication whatsoever until it was too late. Actually, I was given the impression by puke himself on tuesday that it was fine, and that the option of closing and reopening afterwards was available. It was then parroted by you, which I actually agreed with, yet as I kept explaining my situation, I was still seen as uncooperative?

I enjoyed making the bitpacks and sharing music
I also enjoyed hosting the synclistens and sharing music
I enjoyed making and working with friends
I am not that guy "who just comes up with the idea and has people do it" like some people put it. I put in a TON of time to organize and run these projects.
This may be seen as selfish, but this is also "my baby" as you yourself put it, and I simply want to do at the very least these few things while you kept reminding me through the last year that I "don't make music". You guys criticize me for "not valuing people's time" and "lazily taking advantage of people", and then criticize me for then wanting to prove you wrong.

This project matters to me too. I'm proud of it, and proud of the people who came along with me on that ride. I'm organizing this project because I want to be involved in making cool things happen with cool friends. And you were trying to take it away from me with complete disregard for my feelings while I kept saying again and again that I don't want to give this all up.

If this community truly is about making friends, then these absolutely insane outburst of control and narrative manipulation have to stop. Utterly disgusting.

If you want to know what I actually did wrong, read #ultimate-hum-chats for yourself. Along with this post, you should get an idea of what happened.

Practice what you preach

I've been looking back at some of the messages in #ultimate-hum-chats and Max, it seems like keffie's suggestions have actually been pretty reasonable. Until now, the project hasn't really been forced out of your hands, and there is still room to figure out where ultimate hum should go (more on that later). I also highly doubt keffie wants to make it about herself since the message she posted is a statement from all the admins.

Maybe it's just me but I think your a little too obsessed with the project, Max. Passion is a good thing, and lord knows we wouldn't have hum 1 without your hard work! But it feels like this obsession has become a part of your personality. I mean you sort of implied it yourself:

"This may be seen as selfish, but this is also "my baby" as you yourself put it"

And looking at some of the messages you've sent to keffie, I think the obsession is taking control of you.

Anyway's looking forward.

I'm not convinced that this project can't still happen on BOTB, unless if admins are really opposed to ultimate hum. We could always go back to the 4hb format, and have the new multi-tiered battle system for stuff like advent calendar. Maybe this will piss off puke since I know he worked hard on the new system, but this feels like the right solution to me, since it won't conflict with other majors.

Of course max also implied that admins would prefer ultimate hum to... uhh... not be on botb. But I've been waiting for an explicit statement from admins regarding that, and keffie's statement isn't entirely opposed to ultimate hum as much as it is just the current major.

So conclusion... uh i don't know. I don't think this needs to end with sour tastes in everyone's mouth. Best course of action is probably more discussion, specifically on cave dingle or on the forums (we should really keep off the ultimate hum work server for stuff like this) and maybe a strawpoll to see what most hummers are ok with doing once max gets back.

Those are my two cents.

Honestly that sounds like an awesome idea! and i absolutely agree we owe puke a ton for taking his own personal time to run the site. i'd just hate to see ultimate hum specifically go away, since max and many others (including puke) spent a lot of time on it.

as a side note, hum 1 was run pretty sensibly, imo. it's not like max has no idea how to organize

If this was obsession, I wouldn't have taken up this 60-65 hour a week job on the basis of being helpful on top of it, I would've also not paused it and would've worked myself into the ground.

No, this is absolute annoyance at being pestered for a long time (I dont have) for things that are impossible, defeats the purpose or that cross lines that I am not willing to cross even after I am clear about it, along with borderline insults and continued entitlement to time I obviously dont have.

Working with creative things doesnt make you obsessive. With vision comes limits, and for all I know, that's just how that works. I don't remember BotB being a mental hospital for the obsessive, yet I have encountered these lines/creative limits with many; and that's normal.

If I'm obsessed about the project, then they're absolutely raving mad about keeping it running no matter what. (I am simply pointing out the double standard) Heck, if anything, it just seems way too planned out. Just a few hours later they're already publically planning on running a hum-like "but better"; and you talk to me about obsession.

There's also interpersonal baggage that you are most likely unaware of, which I have referenced. Try being on the receiving end of something like this. And I meant "yourself" as in generally the other side of the coin.

perhaps for future multi-partite majors like this, it would be best if it was required for the host to upload all the bitpacks ahead of time. it's fine if they're editable (timeframes too), i think just that simple hurdle would keep people from just uploading placeholders, and more importantly ensure something like this doesn't happen again.

(this is assuming others gain the ability to host majors, which i'm pretty sure is something in the cards at least for something like kleeder's advent calendar? idk, i recall it coming up at least but dunno for sure)

it's a really great format (other than probably needing weekly voting periods instead like the current week - i do think it makes the most sense to have a 1-week voting period that coincides with the following 1-week entry period) and i hope to see it return

seems like part of the issue here is a disagreement about what this site should be about.

ahem what is the saying? "excuses shmekscuses" ?
sacrifice your body and soul to BOTB

if i was running this compo i would quit my job to see phase 3 to the end. i specifically schedule my work week around compos i thought everyone did that.

ill make the bitpack if nobody else wants to lol

woops i didnt do enough research before shitposting

woops i didnt do enough research before shitposting

i dont wanna see any more of this here. all the important stuff has been said. we are running in circles.

with all the time you wasted to write this replies, max, you couldve easily wrote a few bitpacks for hum. lol

if the discussion continues, i will close the thread.

Average Score: 25.678

I had my misgivings with the first one, but I actually think the switch to a site-based system for Ultimate Hum 2 was a really smart move. Puke's infrastructure eliminated a lot of the friction that was present in the first Hum, and it no longer necessitates a lot of extra work and passion in artists who might not be able to spare it. The more a work requires active curation from all participants, the more likely you are to run into the "too many cooks in the kitchen" problem. This is why Gravity Break is probably gonna be a disaster. :V

I think what makes a lot of botb's systems stand up over time is that they're so automated. An OHB starts, everyone does their thing, and then it ends, no matter how successful the battle actually was. Even majors are set up and then tabulated pretty much on their own now. Hum will always take some level of deliberate aggregation, and therefore some amount of friction.

I think a theoretical Ultimate Hum 3 that almost completely streamlines the submission/curation process would be the best one yet. It always takes more time in the beginning of the project to create the systems that the users will engage with, but that preparation can save you LOADS of headaches down the line. Imagine if every OHB had to be manually reviewed by the admins. This site would be down in a week.

finally gave you bonus points and trophies based on multiple entry periods

was looking through the top tracks of the battle again and the quality was so good overall, it rly makes me wish a round 4 happend