This is not a post claiming that the file limit is too small on AmigaMOD. This is a post apologizing for all the annoying comments I've made suggesting we (basically) remove the storage limit on AmigaMOD. Both suggestions I had were stupid and go against the format's spirit of being an Amiga format.

But BotB, I have a dream.

A dream where all of the module formats are not only combined as S3XMODIT, but also have their own formats.

Now, the reason I suggest this is simple. Very few submissions are ever in S3M, XM, or MOD in S3XMODIT. Which is like, 3/4 of this format. These formats are treated as equals, but in a competition, are definitely not, and there are numerous different idiosyncrasies between the different versions and revisons of the module format.

However, I do agree that if you use these formats only with OpenMPT they are basically identical. So I propose we keep S3XMODIT as a general "anything goes" format, but make these new formats specifically tailored to their "pure" capabilites:

Amiga already has its own format, so amigamod remains as it is.

.s3m, called "ScreamTracker 3", is based on ScreamTracker 3 compatible .s3m files. I think the community should decide on what the upload limit should be. Personally, I think a 1MB upload limit is fair.

.xm, called "FastTracker II", is based on FT2-compatible .xm files, and receives an 8MB upload limit to account for the lack of packing in the format. This means that the limit of channels is 32 and all that.

.it also kind of has its own thing, being the primary target in the modxxk formats and S3XMODIT. However, it would be rude not to give it a format called "ImpulseTracker". Especially because of the number of extensions it has. For consistency, stereo samples in munched modules are also banned (this is normally not possible without doing a settings dive anyway).

And to avoid bloating the list, this is where we stop. S3XMODIT can be for any extensions provided by later versions of a particular module type, or for other trackers that spun off from the original and use the same filetype with different capabilities, as it kind of already is. It can be hard to track what module extensions are deemed "compatible" with different trackers as it currently stands, and this, I hope, should clear up the confusion.

You know now that a grand total of 0 people care, I'm not entirely sorry for asking for more amiga space. I have composed 2 amiga modules specifically for BotB and countless more that I don't finish because, each time, I have had to cut a significant amount stuff, completely compromising the quality of the module, just because of this stupid limit. Can we just-- raise it to 512 or something? I have completely lost my shit over the amount of people that don't even DO amigamod, and yet, complain that a higher storage limit would be some sort of crime. You know what, why don't you try to fit a drum break in 256kb with no compression without absolutely ruining the sound of your module?

edit: how do i hait my own comment

I feel like the first problem could be alleviated if more people hosted sexmodits that placed a module format requirement in the bitpack.

My worry is that, if we had formats for each module format, that few people would ever host them if the combined battle type continues to exist. Considering how infrequently sexmodits come up on BotB, I'd prefer not to split badge progress and such.

I see your point. But, there are so many other formats that we don't run often anyway

this idea is...kinda bad, ngl.

firstly, what would this accomplish that bitpack restrictions wouldn't? if botbrs just put module type restrictions in their bitpacks, boom, problem solved. it would take an inordinate amount of xhbs to fix the discrepancy, but it wouldn't take longer than splintering off three more formats from sexmodit. like, you need only ask someone to host a battle with these format limitations and chances are, if they've the badge or unlimited format access, they'd do it.

secondly, it's not as if this discrepancy is hurting s3xmodit in the long haul. sure, it sucks that most people swoon at impulse over screams or xm's, but...it's not as if s3xmodit is hurting because of it. if anything, it's hurting because not many people want to host it these days due to formats like allgear, wildchip, and midi taking the botb zeitgeist. splitting s3xmod would not fix the real problem.

but thirdly, and most of all, the most this will accomplish would be format bloat. while, yes, you can argue that modxk, the nsf's, etc., can be called bloatware formats, but at least they have reasons to exist. modxk are basically challenge formats, nsf+ and nsfc are radically different styles of how to compose for the same hardware set, and they both have people who regularly compete in it, proving that they have a userbase within botb. the most i can see for s3m, xm, and it (the proposed format) is it (the proposed format) getting the bulk of what would be s3xmod entries, hurting it more than helping it.

the issue you propose here - which, i'll say it, is a non-issue in the long term - would've already been solved if, instead of asking for more formats, you hosted a series of s3xmod xhbs that implemented these restrictions. i'm all for format diversification, but this is just asking botb to needlessly inflating the format count because s3m doesn't get more rep. i'm sorry for being blunt, but that's honestly what it sounds like to me! if there were more restrictions to the proposed formats, maybe, but as of now this idea isn't it chief

I vote yes because I'd love to have a gold FastTracker 2 badge on my profile.

XM4LYFE!!!

I feel like adding more formats would just create more problems than solutions, in my opinion. As big lumby said, all of this can be decided thru bitpack/rules.
The only decision I think is (relatively) reasonable is removing the limit for Amiga MOD, as Amiga computers can have RAM expansions.

also I feel that your postings come across as a bit snobbish? (I'm sorry if that comes off as rude.) I don't know, It seems like if you just used s3xmodit for .mod files it would be fine, plus everything else you're concerened about.

i probably said this in our argument last night but (re)iterating here about the second issue and this whole thread in general

this would just be solved if - ironically so - there was an amigaexpanded format. let me ask you this: if you're so worried about s3m and xm being outdated and overshadowed in s3xmod, then why are you proposing a format rule change that would, in essence, do the exact same thing you're trying to fix in that format to amigamod? if amigamod was expanded, more entries would be closer to that new file size rather than the established limit - a limit that's in place because that's what most amigas can run. this, in essence, is the "issue" you're trying to solve, only instead of file type it's file size. by your standards, you should be asking for an amigamod+ format, not a rule change that would accomplish the same thing you're apparently disgusted by in s3xmodit.

i'm not entirely sorry when i say this: is this thread just a reason for you to complain? from all my time back here, the most you've seemed to do is complain about random bs that doesn't matter, make threads about changes to the site you want and then get mad at us when things don't go your way. i do agree that the limit can be increased - maybe for a seperate modxk-esque format - but nobody's gonna want if when you demand it so snobbily and then proceed to argue with everyone who finds flaws in your proposal. you said it yourself that you want (perhaps desire) to contribute to botb; in that case, why are your contributions mostly arguing with botbrs and demanding changes to the site? why not make music or tools to improve the botbr experience?? you've proven yourself a good enough producer and coder to at least test your hand at that, and yet the most i've seen you do is...well, this and the humancore thread.

it's like bravoman said: the biggest impression i have of you is that of a snob who can't handle it when people say "no". again, i'm somewhat sorry for saying all of this, but you kinda bring it upon yourself when you stubbornly start an argument with kleeder and me about this stuff at 9pm in the night

I don't disagree with you about the snob point, just in general.

I need to stop complaining and start making. It's clear to me that I need to put my money where my mouth is, and make tools instead of complaining that someone else could do it.

And I will continue to work towards not sounding snobbish. I really need to think before I hit submit. It has gotten marginally better since I first joined, or at least a little less frequent, but persistence doesn't equal progress.

As I've said prior, from what I've gathered from people, I don't think the problem is that I want to discuss these topics, it's the way I discuss them. I act entitled, and this has been a problem for most of my life. Please continue to point out when I sound like a snob. I don't think I could recognize that 100% on my own until hours later.

I called this a state of the format thread, but it was really "what 02FD doesn't like about s3xmodit/amigamod". Not everyone shares these opinions (clearly, by the responses I keep trying to convince otherwise) and I should stop pretending that they should.

Thank you for being sane, lumby.

it's true that the module types comprising s3xmodit aren't strictly equal, but the point is just to make cool old tracker music, and if your entry rocks, then it will do well, regardless of the filetype - i firmly believe that. rather than worrying about making "the optimum choice" for tackling the format i believe it's best to focus on what you want to make; that energy will shine through anyway

just my onion. thanks for returning to this with a cooler head even in the face of heat

inb4 i submit 4 .mod files to winter chip (s3xmodit, wildchip, fakebit, and amigamod)

that would unironically be awesome

@02FD i think that amigamod battle format is limited to 256kb for being playable and editable on a "standard" amiga 500 without expansion (which had 512kb ram, which is shared to display, workbench and everything)

only thing i could see of all of this making sense is s3m having its own format where you can use both fm and samples, but mptm already does that and better with access to more features to boot...? actually unsure if mptm allows for fm though

anyhow i think 256kb is a fine limit for mods, it used to be much smaller at 64kb a couple of years ago, just loop, chop or compress your samples better if youre hitting the limit i guess?

don't forget: s3m gets some of its fm from adlib and other compatible card's opl2. adlib can easily cover the fm side of s3m, although having them together could probably make a decent format with the right limitations.