Hi. I am new to BOTB and have been involved in the demoscene and tracking since 1994. I participated in an OHC tonight and found out about the whole VOTING POWER method of voting on this site.

I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT!

Every other OHC I have participated in before BOTB ohc's has been rated from BEST TO WORST and votes were taken accordingly.

I do not find it fair to have more power simply because one has been a part of a website network longer than another person... and what if someone lost their account information and had to start over, how is that fair to them?

I would like to hear everyone's opinions and arguments both FOR and AGAINST the Voting Power system!

Fair is fair... My vote should count just as much as anyone else's vote! Nobody else should have a more powerful voice than another person! That is the only fair method of voting!

Because of this realizaion I will not participate in voting for winter chip ii.

Speak now!

And thank you for the ability to speak out. At least free speech has not been censored here yet!

in a one-hour-competition, where everyone joins in to take part, everyone's votes should have the same voting strength. for instance, if there are 20 new people taking part in a OHC, and 1 person with like 33x strength, that 1 person gets to choose who wins, and is probably only too aware of that. OHC should be votingstrength-free.

yes it's not a bad thought, for all entries..

first of all calm down. ^^

second, the voting power isn't lineary getting higher the longer you are here, it's going up and down somehow(i was once rather high, in about my third ohc or so, then less again, then higher) with a system probably no one but b-knox knows(that's something i really don't like, an important part of voting like that should be transparent imo); you have higher voting strentgh then i have btw, with me having joined more than 5 times the OHCs than you.

third, i don't really like the voting strentgh system either personally ^^

fourth, if you prefer to do OHCs elsewhere you are free to do so, this is a free service with a nice site done by a single person completly in his free time

agree.

Actually, such a voting system might fuck the results up, one aware of that could just comment other's tunes, join OHCs and then vote.
Even if you wanna motivate people browsing the website and acting as a part of it, i don't think someone active here for a year should have more strenght than some guys into demoscene/tracking for years (... and some around are even for ages), this system would be okay for OHCs but maybe not for such a big compo.

It's true, it's kinda lame, but jesus, it's not that big of a deal. I just like posting my shit and having people comment on it. The contest is just a bonus anyway.

Ha, at first I saw the One hour compo you were in and i was like, this guy got last place he must just suck dick. Then I heard the song and it's pretty syck, so yeah, you just got fucked.

Well actually, mister sublamanal knows you can even get a last place on a compo while you submitted a good stuff, but still, this system might help it a lil bit more :/

sorry, i am being all abe lincoln revolutionary speech man here. it's just my nature :D

i don't even care about my results in that competition, it just seems like that voting power thing really screws everything up even in the normal competitions. i agree this is a well put together site with some great features and i love the concept, i just don't agree that some people should have more power than others when it comes to voting. a vote is a vote is a vote. there shouldn't be a difference because someone's been active longer.

i don't think my song in that last OHC was very great anyway :) it was random tekkno boom tchk! :)

either way... i'm not willing to continue being active here, regardless of how well put together the site is or how fun it is, if the voting power thing continues. and i'm sure it will continue regardless.

just thought i'd give my thoughts on the matter.
i appreciate the feedback :)

subliminal: People shouldnt just be able to create lots
of accounts and vote their own tracks high, thats why the votingstrength is there =)

it may work in a different way later though, or may even be removed, its currently in a testing phase,
its there to remove cheating possibilities.

awwww crap, i can't create myself a new account? :(

god... if people create mutliple accounts to change votes they have serious issues...

i'm still not voting until 'votepower' goes away.

I don't care how the system works.

I just want to dance!!

subliminal: at a demoparty, a guy came to me when he saw i was voting, he told me his handle and that i should vote for him and then he asked me if i entered something, in case of...

subliminal: there are more people with issues than you might know :X

I like the voting power system because I think I might vote quite differently from the people that contribute more to the site and I don't want to skew the results too much. :)

The thing is, there's nothing really at stake, so why not try something new and interesting like having a voting multiplier?

keep in mind that the votingstrength isnt really a multiplier ;D , that would have been too harsh.

just because i have lets say 20x in votingstrength doesnt meen that i vote 7 on a track and it gets 7x20.

that would have been unfair.

the riddle goes on !!!!! this is a fun game with sounds!
i bet letting people who did not make a track in an OHC but they can still vote on the OHC makes dirty underware aswell!!!!! so clean yourself and move on! botb's for all type's not just the ive been doing it for years longer i should be on top types! cuz, if you have to think what is going on here then something must be going on!
moving is better than standing and standing is better than sitting but sitting is better than sleeping !
So you tell me ! long live change!!!!!long live BOTB!!!! long live the NOOBs!!!!!!!

i thought i was the drunkard here... aclone took me over.

hahahaaaaa

"And thank you for the ability to speak out. At least free speech has not been censored here yet!"

WHAT?!?!? This is atrocious!! The media needs immediate control.

==letting a cat out ===

Voting strength is found through two steps.

1) The strength of your whole single vote is reduced to the percent of votes you casted for that compo. So voting for only 4 out 37 entries gives you a %10.081 pull compared to someone who voted for everything. This was designed to keep Playa's friends from logging and just voting them high.

2) the Pinball method - This is our experimental investment system. Your total score's digits are added up and it fluctuates frequently. This has not yet been implemented into the major compo engine.

<b>No decisions are final.</b>

AHAHAhahahahahahahahaha DICKFAG RULES! :) that's hillarious! hahahahahahahahaha...

okay in all serious banter here...

i don't care about the type of music, if the melodies and themes are good i'll rate it high... but shit, i don't want to be held responsible for having 22x the voting power of someone else... nor do i expect anyone else to have 22x the voting power of me...

i guess, puke 7, that voting system sort of makes sense in the LONG RUN on huge compos but OHC's should not count most especially for that because they're so small... i think that when setting up a compo perhaps there should be a compo level setting? like ... "VOTING POWER YES/NO" or "COMPO SIZE SMALL/LARGE"?

(shrug)

i really like this site and i like what is being done here but i hate this voting system and hardly see any of it as fair...

shhhhh, calm down.... they are going to put you as criticist :)
Okay okay kidding :)

Anyway, it's true the rating system doesn't really work for a standard worldwide compo :/

well, i can say this, like strobe do it before... if you have 20 accounts or 20 friends in a OHC, they can vote you 7 and all the tracks in 1, so you would be the winner, no?... thats one of the reason of the power voter.

and i dont like that actitud, like... spit around, say all, insult X system or critict and then left (the conversation). If you want to do criticts stay there doing that and post your opinion like setrodox do it. He allways have constructives crititcs and he is allways there tell us about his opinion. And if you dont participe and test all, how can you critict something?... its like dont vote for a president and then cry because you dont like that president.

i guess botb have a big open mind and its open to suggest, for real. And maybe its strange system for you, but i guess its not for all.

Just keep participing and dont run like a lady XD... we are all noobs if you dont know that! XD

well i have a poor english but thats all i can say. oh and one more thing.... ALL NOOBS!... lets get fun with a OHC SOON! -.-

I think dumb dwarf and Dickfag are on to something. I can see what he's saying about the OHC. I mean, people ARE crazy and they WILL get friends to vote for them but do these types of people really have many friends? If they do are they such great friends that they would drop what they're doing just to go vote for a track in an hours notice? I think voter strength is a great idea for big compos, OHCs maybe not so much.

What I want to know is how many people have read teh FAQ. When you register with BotB it's not a user account nor a member account. You sign up as a BotB Playa. Perhaps the term 'Playa' should be defined for all as it is slang for someone who hustles. To sum it up:

<b>This is not your Mommy's compo site.</b>

I apologize if anyone finds this deceitful. I am very, very thankful for all the traffic that the demoscene grapevine has brought to BotB!! And it must be very obvious that BotB is very inspired by demoscene experience from the past.

BotB is a game. It is meant to run like an MMORPG. How else are Playas who level-up, putting their time in to be rewarded? Little trophy icons are cute but they've got no power.

As one of the founders and the sole developer of BotB for it's 22 months in existence you can imagine I (as well as some others) have put a lot of thought into these things. With more features implemented points will more accurately represent currency. We have chosen a capitalist model because it is a fascinating system. Is it really that unfair if everyone is treated with the same style of unfairness? The people may have their civil liberty movements but all the real decisions are made behind the curtains by executives (or you could just spend time with us on IRC). Please do not talk to me about democracy - that all went out the window when people decided it wasn't fair to vote for yourself. I just hope and pray that our fire-of-industry-style ideological controversy does not start a climate change (i.e. global warming) that leads to the end of the internet.

This place <i>is</i> somewhat of a clique. But at least we are smart enough to be open and honest about it. If you go to modules.pl you will find a different common aesthetical attitude then you would on metamacro.com/modulez. Or maybe I am just seeing things!?! o__0 But with any clique - if you hang out, put your time in, talk some shit - you will eventually be accepted. No big deal.

I had chats with Strobe about his discontent for the Voter Strength attribute. His concerns were the absolute opposite of subliminal's. Strobe wanted it to be more linear and less random. So in an attempt of a little compromise the system has been modified so the voter strength is not so severe / easier to get a decent level of it.

As always - I am very open to suggestions!! But I need more than 3 Playas of the 90 we've had register in the last month to criticize the system. Feel free to bump this thread if it falls off the main page and you think not enough people have seen it already. =D

If we loose Playas over this whole ordeal that would be a little sad. BotB is designed to offer a unique and new compo environment. We mean no offense to any scene already in place. But BotB is as BotB does.

And as far as censorship: BotB has no <a href="http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1062">Reagan-instillied FEMA camps</a> to throw your libertarian revolutionary movement into. Not yet! ;D

nice post b-knox :D

i have to agree with it, botb is more of a game than a standard compo site. that's what makes it unique :)

what???---pure 100% crap! -.- i dont know how the ppl here let this guy post any comment here!... WHERE ARE THE MODERATORS??? THIS IS NOT A SYSTEM LIKE, "HAIL DURIN HITLER". Pure crap!... i dont know the ppl AROUND THE WORLD, join this crappy page and democratic style!!!... and what im doing here?? i dont talk in english!...!!....

lets play some tunes noobs!...
"first joke and then get fun"

a. I want a fucking cute trophy.
b.It creates an audience that is currently working with the site, to vote on overall performance.
c. Good music may end up last because of inexperience with the site sometimes, but even experienced Playa's tracks/tunes that aren't up to snuff still get poor scores.

" I feel completely comfortable and safe of the BotB
regulations and daily functions." It was designed to combat the everyday computer social criminal." The voting empowerment is fair, sensitive, and subject to change."

Hope you don't mind...but i feel somewhat responsible for the development of the voting empowerment system.

Sorry and your welcome,
DaFus
p.s. I cheated once...
p.s.s. Flabex cheated too!!!

I understand much better now what's this site is aimed at. It's nothing that really interests me in the end but I hope everyone enjoys themselves and focuses on the music and art as the number one priority. I'm sure this site will generate and push a lot of talent and produce some interesting music and I will be happy to be sure to check out how that goes along, however, I do not feel comfortable competing or voting in such a system. If I wanted to play a game I would boot up my PS2. If I wanted to have a fair competition I would do one of those. Modarchvie recently announced one fair balanced competition I may consider competing in.

B-Knox, thank you for setting me straight.

Keep on bumpin' out the beats everyone.
-subliminal-

PS2 IS NOT OLD SCHOOL!!!!!

.... and does anyone remember the days of sitting in front of the Fleetwood

--- http://jim.rees.org/fleet/ ---,

or the 555 Gallery

--- http://www.555arts.org/ ---

for a 6 hours shift handing out CDs with the preselected 25 samples?

like a virgina slim,

"we've come a long way baby"



As for the voting, I'm enjoying this open experiment. If we start having $$$ prizes (like A2 3 battle) maybe we should have a precise voting structure for that specific combo.

If thing's work out right, I hope to have some sort of $$$ prize for the upcoming Detroit III battle in the late spring, early summer.

battle of the bits will offer a cash prize????
why ?

Sometimes we have live events and to promote such events, costs occur; fliers, handbills, PA, possibly renting a space, etc

when, on some occasions, there is actually a profit made, I like to give it back to the producers/composers.

If u organize a live BotB event in your city, you run it your way.

by the way, I have an official "Krull" T-shirt from the movie.... or was the movie "Kull" ?

either way, the point is, I have a T-shirt.

If it wasn't for fleetwood I might have never known about battle of the bits! As for $$$ prizes, I think if any $$$ is made it should go into promotion for battle of the bits. Cool posters, 7"s, CDs, T shirts(I know I want one), events, framed awards ect. I know I sure don't want to think about a cash prize when I'm making a track and if I did win I would feel weird about taking money from an organization with similar goals when i'm just going to pay my over due phone bill with it.

Please start a new thread if you would like to continue this off-topic discussion!! =X

i've read through this whole thread and found it all interesting, but unfortunately don't know exactly how i feel on the voting system, but:

Dafus: tell us how flabex cheated- i know those chaps... interesting

anyway

you know flabex?!?